Stealthy Gandalf

20+ PD will detect Stealth +0 probably 75% of the time. 10+ PD I would say has a 50% chance.

For Stealth +25 (or more), you have virtually no chance to find them with common PD and will have to revert to using Patrollers and quite a few, to boot.

Bane Venom Charms are excellent for causing havok and psychologically. This is one great advantage that Spy Nations (Marignon, Ulm, etc) can use, by chainusing High end stealth units to drive huge amounts of death and panic on a nation.

[Saxon]

Hmm, it sounds like this is an area that is underutilized, under documented and underplayed. I guess I can go out and explore this world! It should be fun, most of the time when I try out something new, it is well known on the Boards and I feel like I am just trying someone else’s ideas. Now I can feel like I am exploring things for myself.

Gandalf, I suspect your unwillingness to share these state secrets is a role-playing extension of your stealthy forces. Hmm, who would have guessed the secrets behind that beard…

Zen, those percentages seem far too high. I have moved stealthy troops around before, against PD, and suffered few discoveries. I will now see what I can find out in this area.

[Gandalf Parker]

You are right. It is one of the underplayed parts of the game in my opinion. Most of the suggestions I see for Pangaea/Man/Vanheim tend to be efforts at playing them as Ulm which is of course bound to go badly.

Actually I tried to write up a strat guide because of this thread. Its just not my style to sit and put it all down. We could discuss the different aspects, then someone here can compile it into logical reading.

What do you want first?
A) pretenders
B) nation choice
C) dominion, scales, and castles
D) mage/assassins
E) priests
F) province patterns
G) armys and attacking
H) harrassment tactics
I) ally and diplomacy benefits
J) creative equipment use

[Boron]

Originally posted by Zen:

Bane Venom Charms are excellent for causing havok and psychologically. This is one great advantage that Spy Nations (Marignon, Ulm, etc) can use, by chainusing High end stealth units to drive huge amounts of death and panic on a nation.

in your miqr stands : provincial disease .
2 questions :
1. do 2 bane venom charms stack up and kill population twice as fast ?
2. is it only provincial disease or does it work like a harvester of sorrows and diseases both troops + population ?
who kills population quicker ?
-a harvester of sorrows
-a stealthy scout/spy e.g. with 1 bane venom charm
-a scout with 2 bane venom charms

problem though is that the harvester has only stealth 0 .
on the other hand it is flying so good strat movement + when you have a border with your enemy he can devastate the border areas almost without risk : if he is discovered he has always first move right ?
scripted to retreat he will always retreat than in your province right ?

Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?
if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

[ July 27, 2004, 15:20: Message edited by: Boron ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?

You need to control the province at the time that retreats are figured out, which is after battles near the end of the turn. A spell like ghost riders, which gives the province to independents until the beginning of the next turn, can prevent him from retreating successfully.

if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

All units can only retreat to neighbouring friendly provinces. Flying and stealth don't matter in this at all.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Boron:
... if he is discovered he has always first move right ?
scripted to retreat he will always retreat than in your province right ?

Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?
if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

He will have nowhere to retreat, and be eliminated.

He also will not get the first tactical move when discovered. Sneaking units which are discovered are treated as attacking the province, so the defenders get the first move. If your enemy has something that can get to you on the first turn, then you have to survive that.

A Harvester of Sorrows though is a pretty tough cookie and can often wipe out or scare away patrollers by himself...

PvK

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

Actually I tried to write up a strat guide because of this thread. Its just not my style to sit and put it all down. We could discuss the different aspects, then someone here can compile it into logical reading.

What do you want first?
C) dominion, scales, and castles

I have two vague ideas of what you are doing. I would appreciate if you commented these and told if you (or why you wouldn't) do things like this.

A stealthy nation often goes out of its dominion, so I quess one could take bad scales and low dominion and fight as far away from it as possible. This would make detection of the nationn's citadel less likely, but the citadel wouldn't be very good as the bad dominion would affect it.

It might be possible to take scales that benefit castles, like production and order, and build temples in the same provinces that one builds his castles. The player would then have strong spots of dominion all around the map, each one would have dominion bonuses for armies. If going this route, taking drain and researching in areas without temples near could be a possibility. To be able to use this one would ned a cheap castle, and cheap temples. I think Pangaea could pull it off.


So, is either of these strategies workable?