OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

NTJedi · #1 July 26th, 2004, 09:47 PM

Even more importantly is John Kerry is going against his catholic religion which is a serious moral issue.
John Kerry is unapologetically pro-abortion... yet as a Catholic, he is required to be personally opposed to the idea.

Graeme Dice · #2 July 26th, 2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Higher Taxes is the point ! Many citizens as myself have a tough time making our house & utilities payments where we can't afford to give another $250.oo for some new healthcare plan which covers everyone in the USA. Why should we pay higher taxes for more government intervention.

Most modern health care systems spend either less per person, or the same amount per person as the U.S. system, and achieve much better results. (The U.S. is 38th in the world for quality of health care.) While your taxes will increase to pay for a public health care system, your overall cost will only increase if you never contract a serious illness in your life.

Quote:

Let us as citizens pay for healthcare when we need the care.

And if you can't afford to pay, then we should just let you rot?

Quote:

Not all hospitals are the same... and without a doubt the waiting time would increase no matter where you are.

Do you have any evidence that the waiting time would increase? Since I doubt that you do, you can hardly say that it's "without a doubt".

Skolem · #3 July 26th, 2004, 10:01 PM

As you are discussing this topics, can I ask the americans of this bord, a single thing: I never understand why things that are organized by the state are such a terrible thing?
As a society it is normal to help others when you aren't in need, as they will help you if you are, thats one of the most basic idea, and health or education belongs to this, why should someone not receive any help in such thing just because he hadn't the money? Sure they may be some who would profite of this but there aren't the majority, AND there are the others who had no chance in life, why punish them?
I never understand this point of view, but maybe it's just that I am a foolish european

Skolem

Graeme Dice · #4 July 26th, 2004, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:
This may be the case, but paying for your healthcare individually does have one very large benefit, especially because health care costs a lot: If you are healthy, you don't need any!

Can you show me that a sizable portion of the population will remain healthy for their entire life?

Quote:

In Canada, it's government-funded healthcare. Everyone gets it, including people who rightly couldn't afford it, and therefore don't really need it, and as a result, in some places, it can be too crowded with people getting unnecessary treatment.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. Do you seriously believe that a heart attack patient doesn't need treatment because they don't have tens of thousands of dollars in cash?

Norfleet · #5 July 26th, 2004, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Can you show me that a sizable portion of the population will remain healthy for their entire life?

Nope. Nobody remains healthy their entire lives. That's why people die, you see? Living forever is incredibly boring, anyway.

Quote:

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. Do you seriously believe that a heart attack patient doesn't need treatment because they don't have tens of thousands of dollars in cash?

Well, excuse me if I don't come from the new, modern "must have it even if I can't afford it" culture that Zen informs me is increasingly pervasive. In *MY* day, if you couldn't afford something, you got a nice lesson in something we called "Learning To Do Without". Hell, in my day, people had heart attacks just *DIED* most of the time, even if you did try to blow a wad of cash on treatment. So you'll understand if I'm skeptical that somebody really *NEEDS* these things. We didn't have them in my day, and people managed anyway! Funny, how that works, yes? Sure, some of them died, but as you can clearly see, we managed. You're just spoiled and squeamish. Learn to accept that death is a natural part of life, and when stuff like this happens that you, obviously, couldn't be bothered to prepare for, you obviously didn't think it was important to do so, so you accept the consequences. What happened to personal responsibility? It's quite simple: If you can't be bothered to prepare for these things, you deserve it. If none of your friends will help you either, obviously, you're not important enough to the world, or even yourself, that somebody else should be shouldering what should have been YOUR responsibility. Learn to accept the consequences of your actions and inactions. Maybe if you hadn't blown all your cash on some useless doohickey or a new car, you wouldn't be too broke to afford medical treatment.

NTJedi · #6 July 26th, 2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
While your taxes will increase to pay for a public health care system, your overall cost will only increase if you never contract a serious illness in your life.

That's wrong... take a look at how much switzerland is paying for this government healthcare. Another bad reason for government healthcare is we would never be able to go back.

Quote:

quote:
Let us as citizens pay for healthcare when we need the care.

And if you can't afford to pay, then we should just let you rot?

So what you're suggesting is why just stop at U.S citizens?? Lets provide a Universal HealthCare for all countries including illegal aliens within our own. We can't just let them rot either... right?

Quote:

Do you have any evidence that the waiting time would increase? Since I doubt that you do, you can hardly say that it's "without a doubt".

Lets see... there are millions without any healthcare which would be going to the hospitals if they could... whether or not its needed.
Currently X amount of people are going to the hospitals everyday.
With a government healthcare it would be X amount of people going to the hospitals PLUS Y amount of people also going which couldn't afford this before. Less beds/rooms available... less medical supplies... because of Y amount of people also going.

Example=
Will people start giving more blood with the new healthcare system to help provide the supplies needed for Y amount of people?? Take a guess!

Skolem · #7 July 26th, 2004, 10:25 PM

Is it really relaxing, to be say 20 year old and working to put some money back for the case you have a leg broken , for the case you must go to the dentist, maybe because you want your children (say in ten years)to go do the university, or simply to be sure that even if he fellt ill you can afford a doctor, or etc... Is it really a feeling of freedom or is it just fear of the future because something could happen. I'm sure I don't want to live with that feeling, but as you seem to live with it, I just want you to ask if it enhance your happiness, your quality of life?