OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by vigabrand:
I think you missed my point Arryn. The refund was not big, but everyone got one, not just the rich. It was our money to begin with and for the middle class, every little bit helps. You may not think so, so give it back.

I would gladly have given back mine if I thought it would give back what it killed. It sure didnt carry over to this year. As middle-class homeowner with kids they keep saying I should be getting wonderul improvements but this appears to be a horrible year.

I dunno, seems to be working to me. Seems we have the fastest economic growth in the Last 20 years.

Really? I keep hearing that but all I see are lack of jobs, lack of services, and lack of feeling like things are going well. I dont tend to vote one way or the other but Im having trouble figuring out why this is supposed to be better than the Last guys term. I keep hearing it but personally it doesnt feel that way. And everyone I talk to seem to be in the same boat. Even the ones that agree with whats being said seem to not have any of those benefits in their own lives. They say things like "well of course personally things arent going well but the country is doing much better"

[ July 27, 2004, 16:54: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Boron:
why are taxes increased in the future ? i don't understand that.

Because the money that the government borrows must be paid back with interest. Which means that if the government spends X dollars today for something (a war, tax cuts, whatever), then taxpayers must later pay taxes equal to X dollars + Y dollars of interest. X+Y > X

lower taxes mean more consuming.

A flawed assumption. The extra money might be hoarded. Or it might be spent on items that do not lead to job growth, especially if producers retain profits rather than create jobs or if they spend the profits on paying shareholders. This Last item means you transfer wealth from the lower and middle classes (most consumers) to the upper class (most shareholders). And the upper class hoards money far more than they spend it, so it doesn't cycle back. It just concentrates at the top.

the companies make even more profit and become even more competetive.

Companies are *less* competitive when profits are high because they aren't needing to work as hard at getting their customers to pay.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:

---

I dunno, seems to be working to me. Seems we have the fastest economic growth in the Last 20 years.

Really? I keep hearing that but all I see are lack of jobs, lack of services, and lack of feeling like things are going well. I dont tend to vote one way or the other but Im having trouble figuring out why this is supposed to be better than the Last guys term. I keep hearing it but personally it doesnt feel that way. And everyone I talk to seem to be in the same boat. Even the ones that agree with whats being said seem to not have any of those benefits in their own lives. They say things like "well of course personally things arent going well but the country is doing much better"

---

Under the "Last guy" I was employed. Now I'm not. Nor are several of my friends who also, like me, were employed at high-paying jobs. I see lots of low-paying service sector job openings. The jobs I used to do? Gone to India. If and when I do manage to find a job, it'll be for less money than I used to make. How is the country better off, when the best jobs have and are disappearing, and at the same time we're getting deeper into debt as a nation, our image globally is horribly tarnished, and we're systematically destroying the nation's ecology and educational system, not to mention becoming ever less secure ... and free?

[Huzurdaddi]

Vigabrand you are a perfect example why everyone should not be allowed to vote.

Who cares if everyone got something. What matters is how much did everyone get back vs. how much did they lose in services. If you are at the federal 35% marginal rate ( or above ) you probably did well. Otherwise you did not.

If you can't find even the most basic of statistics, then you certainly can't claim that your argument is correct.

BWHAHAH! I stated some examples, friend. Sorry you could not counter them. The sad truth is that Canadian medical facilities are woefully under equiped vs. the US ones, further the Canadian staff members are simply inferior, on average, to the us staff members.

You should really go to a US hospital. It's amazing the difference.And you should do the lawyer thing I mention. It's amazing the difference.

Oh, I thought you were saying that the tort system in the U.S. was a good thing

You are quite comical. Indeed the US tort system PROTECTS those who get treatment here. I'm sorry to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No, I don't know _anyone_ who goes to the U.S. for any treatments whatsoever.

Wow. All I can say is that you are either willfully ignorant or I totally misjudged your SES. If it is the latter I am sorry.

[vigabrand]

Gandalf, what exactly did it kill? Taxes are no higher this year than Last. It's turning out to be a pretty good year for me. I think it's going to depend on where you live as to how well the economy is doing (I don't think the midwest is doing that much better). A million new jobs, record numbers in homeowner growth, a resurgence in the tech industry (at least in Atlanta), things definately look better than they did after 9/11, when I lost my job. At least from my perspective.

[vigabrand]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
Vigabrand you are a perfect example why everyone should not be allowed to vote.

Who cares if everyone got something. What matters is how much did everyone get back vs. how much did they lose in services. If you are at the federal 35% marginal rate ( or above ) you probably did well. Otherwise you did not.

I think the evidence is pretty poignant. The economy is surging, because people used the money to pay their bills or buy things. I don't see any reduction in services. Actually, I see private sector services dramatically increased. The gov't services are still status quo. Your argument is based on things that might happen in the future. You don't use facts to argue, instead you attack me personally by claiming I shouldn't be allowed to vote, and make predictions based on the democrat talking points. You don't have to listen to me about the tax cuts, listen to Allen Greenspan.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by vigabrand:
Gandalf, what exactly did it kill? Taxes are no higher this year than Last. It's turning out to be a pretty good year for me. I think it's going to depend on where you live as to how well the economy is doing (I don't think the midwest is doing that much better). A million new jobs, record numbers in homeowner growth, a resurgence in the tech industry (at least in Atlanta), things definately look better than they did after 9/11, when I lost my job. At least from my perspective.

Maybe its a California thing, and me being in tech. We do have the additional help of Arnold. I see the same numbers you are quoting but Im wondering if you are getting them from the news or if you actually SEE those things around you. Ive had 2 sons job hunting and this seems an extremely low year for that. The unemployment place seemed swamped until that ran out. I see alot of people trying very hard to sell things like boats and cars they can no longer afford. We have been trying for a year to sell my Dads house on Corpus Christi lake in Texas (more retirement/vacation home than someplace to move to). I see my favorite companys going under, cutting back, canceling projects. Conventions being cancelled. Concerts and concert tours cancelled. Im seeing REAL lacks in police, fire, schools, highway (they always complained they wanted more but now Im seeing things not done that they obviously want to be able to do).

Im just as willing as the next guy to want to see the things I keep hearing on the news. I just am not seeing it so I wondered if you see it there or is it the news numbers you see.

[ July 27, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]