An Idea for a "New Nation" (or "Theme" for Mictlan)

[Sandman]

A native North American nation would be nice; although I have to confess I'm not too keen on nations with flimsy infantry.

The suggestion/quibbles:

A level 4 priest is quite unnecessary with such a diverse selection of sacred mages on offer. Doesn't fit the theme particularly well, either, IMO. If it did, it would have a cooler name than 'high priest'.

There's probably a few too many low-level mages; I'd give the witchdoctor the boot. The name is already taken by Machaka, for starters. The random socery pick doesn't fit the theme very well either, IMO. Astral and nature they already have in abundance, and death and blood aren't really very thematic for what seems like a good and noble nation (you say it yourself: this will not be a blood nation). Additionally, the nation is already swimming in randoms, is another really necessary? And finally, the witchdoctor seems awfully like the Jotun Vaetti Hag.

The only elemental magic I would consider for this nation would be air; seems thematically correct, given their stealth, illusion and archery. Giving them access to all elemental paths is way too much , especially when they've got so many random picks already. I'd avoid giving them a reliable source of Earth magic, in particular; it's one of the most powerful magic types, IMO, and not to be given lightly.

Having them as an nature/astral/air nation with a solid dosage of randoms is plenty.

I agree that they don't need an assassin.

I'd broaden the 'ancestral herd' spell to include other spirit animals as well; wolves, hawks, bears, lions, etc. Keeps in VERY well with the theme.

Have you considered making their ethereal units mistformed instead (if it's even possible)? Would add a bit of distinctiveness to the theme, versus Vanheim's glamour and Soul Gate's ethereal. Could be awfully powerful, I have to admit.

I think you should try and achieve more of a balance with regards to resource cost. It's not much fun to have to go 'either-or' with nations that have a mix of ultra-resource-cheap and ultra-resource-expensive units. Vanheim I think has a good balance here, yet still has plenty of diversity.

[tinkthank]

Hey thanks for the feedback so far!

1. Yes, I did NOT intend to have the Masters of Directions have 2 paths, but I am not editing that post again or all of the other Posts will become confusing. Yes, I agree, it should be 1 path in each or split up into 4 different masters, which I am tending towards now.

2. I am not keen on flimsy infantry either, but them's the breaks.

3. Thematic is post-European Oglala, horses were an integral part of almost all parts of their life including religious ceremonies. Please remember that saying "Native American" is almost like saying "Asian" or something, there are so very very many manifold cultures subsumed under this term that no real identity can be brought out. Anyhow, I am taking most of this from just 2-3 sources, all of which includes horses to a very high degree. (Remember "Crazy Horse"? There is some nice folk-etymology on his name elucidated in Black Elk Speaks.)


4. High Priest is a crappy name indeed, I will need some research to find a better, but I do indeed feel a need for high levels of devoutness and lower levels of military might and technology.

5. Astral and sorcery is in there for the Stargazing. I know the name is taken by Machaka, but that doesn't bother me too much. But there shouldnt be too many randoms, you are correct. Will set mind to recogitation.

6. Mistform instead of etheral I would do if this is a balance issue, but prefer to have the feel of "damn my bullet passes right through him!" or "darn he can't be hit at all, what a holy man!" instead of "he can sure take a licking".

7. I almost prefer a non-balance between resources, so that the nation can be played with different styles and flavors -- a Gandalf (just an example) might go lo-resources, hi stealth, with a medium-type fort, ignoring or rarely recruiting the hi-resources one, where a Norfleet (just an example) might go just the opposite, choosing a hi-resource fort or productivity or whatever, or any blend in-between. This may make for less beauty, but I think it increases the "fun" value of any nation. (Think: Ryleh, where you can "either" go sloth (or not) and go thralls, crabs, lobos, illithids, or go illithid warriors and meteorite guards.)

8. I cannot do my own graphics, if I did, they would be ugly, and I dont want that. I dont see another solution, sorry.

9. Thanks tons so far, will consider everything everyone says for general re-hauling.

Are there any Mictlan players out there thinking "What an idiot, why to THIS as a Mictlan theme?" Would anybody really object to this being somehow built in (to Mictlan)?

Any general suggestions to unit pricings?
Any further suggestions?

I dont know how to mod strength reduction when defending castles -- anybody know how to do that?

thanks much

[alexti]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
3. Mages/Priests
- Medicine Man: sacred, N2 ?1, can heal afflictions, capital only
- Shaman: H2 N1 S1 ?1
- Witchdoctor: H2 1?-sorcery
- The Master of the Heavens: H2 S2 N1 1?, capital only
- Master of the Four Directions: H3 F2 E2 W2 A2 ?1, capital only
- Master of Dreams: H3 S2, capital only
- High Priest: H4, capital only

Master of the Four Directions is way too good. Even without the random. Even if it's priced very high, one can just buy 1 or 2 for site searching and access to different paths. Thematically it also feels wrong. Generally, astral and nature feels right for your nation, probably adding earth would also be inline, so instead of Master of the Four Directions, I would suggest something like
H3+E1+N2+?

Originally posted by tinkthank:

4. Other Commanders
- Assassin

I think that's too good for them, and anyway their honour should not allow assasinations. Even spy seems wrong for such nation, maybe they should just have scouts with good stealth bonus.

[Endoperez]

I suggest making Master of the Four Directions a hero (2 in all elements) and making general mages too have elemental random, maybe coming in two kinds. FE? and WA? with ? being elemental random would give them access to 2 in any element, but it wouldn't be too easy (50% change of getting 2 in either of their paths or one in three paths). And linked two randoms would be really great, but are not moddable IIRC.

High priest could be a hero, too. To balance for their many heroes adding many more would be interesting. I would like to see a nation with 20+ heroes, out of which few are truly powerful.

Modding the spell Kithaironic Lion would easily get you Ancestral Ox.

Tracker should be either a scout with high stealth or a spy.


Totem Pole. Astral and Nature, does not move, low hp, vulnerable to fire, mediocre protection, no attacks etc. Either as a commander they start with or as a commander available at all castles, not too expensive for a mage of its skills but has huge resource cost (200+).

[Vicious Love]

Sooo... Why not just give the sacred braves Air Shield?

[Sandman]

4. High Priest is a crappy name indeed, I will need some research to find a better, but I do indeed feel a need for high levels of devoutness and lower levels of military might and technology.

Why not give one of their top-tier mages holy-4 instead? I mean, all their lower-level priests are mages as well - it doesn't really make much sense thematically to have a pure priest. Why has he not learned any magic?

5. Astral and sorcery is in there for the Stargazing. I know the name is taken by Machaka, but that doesn't bother me too much. But there shouldnt be too many randoms, you are correct. Will set mind to recogitation.

If it's stargazing that the witchdoctor does, then why not just give him astral-1? With a sorcery random pick, the player can get effective low-level access to death and blood. In fact, the blood witchdoctor would be identical to the Mictlan priest. With astral-1, he'd be a useful communion slave and light caster. Additionally, making him astral-1, holy-2 would tie him nicely to the Master of Dreams, with his astral-2, holy-3.

Are you sure it's a good idea to give them ALL the elements? Remember, astral/nature/elements is Arcoscephale's thing - and these guys, whilst weaker in astral, are stronger in nature, are sacred, and will probably have guaranteed, reliable elemental picks, rather than Arco's randoms lottery. And the sheer versatility of their mages is treading on T'ien Chi's toes.

Sooo... Why not just give the sacred braves Air Shield?

It would make the air bless useless.