So how 'bout those Mets?

[Stormbinder]

I guess I should have learned from the style of diatribe in the whole GG fiasco. If one compares the retorts from that whole scandal, Norfleet and his alter-ego's tones at that time were amazingly similar to this week's.

Hold on. Was you in my "Song of Ice and Fire" game on GG that Norfleet have ruined, Demosthenes? If so, what was your nick there, on GG Boards?

Or did you just read our game thread and compared that alter ego with Norfleet, whom you know from shrapnels Boards?

But in any case, you are absolutely correct, they were very similar, depite their efforts. So I am not too concerned about Norfleet appearing under some other name anytime soon. If he will, we would likely to discover it pretty fast. If everything else fails, watch for some newbie who would write 2500 Posts in few months...

I have to say I learned a lesson from this, again. Again meaning I guess I should have learned this one already... Don't trust anyone. Hmmm....

But wasn't that Norfleet's whole ethos?

The lesson is that people who think that no-one can be trusted, cannot themselves be trusted. One believes that society is a reflection of whatever world-view they have and they go out and manifest that reality upon others. Most people are reasonably good and consciencious. Be careful of anyone who tells you otherwise.

Indeed. Though my life I have came to the personal conclusion, that it is well worth to keep generaly good opinion about people around you, unitl they have proven otherwise. Sure, you'll certanly run in some jerk now and then, and may suffer as a result. But it is better than to become very suspisious toward all people, not trusting anyone and puting all kind of psyhological heavy defenses around you and shooting at everyone who dares come close...

At least this is my opinion on this matter, and it have been working quite well for me.

[Evil Dave]

Indeed. Though my life I have came to the personal conclusion, that it is well worth to keep generaly good opinion about people around you, unitl they have proven otherwise. Sure, you'll certanly run in some jerk now and then, and may suffer as a result. But it is better than to become very suspisious toward all people, not trusting anyone and puting all kind of psyhological heavy defenses around you and shooting at everyone who dares come close...

At least this is my opinion on this matter, and it have been working quite well for me.

Cool! Somebody else who explictly plays the "super rational" solution to the Prisoners' Dilemma.

[Karacan]

To add an opinion: The Dominions-board will be much, much less interesting to read. I for one enjoyed his quips, attitude and witty remarks - stolen or not.

By the way, nowhere in the dev's Posts it's said that Norfleet hacked something. I certainly have no idea how to achieve those masses of gems, and I find it very unfortunate that Norfleet is not willing to share his side, though likely hard to believe.

*shrug*

It ain't over til the fat lady sings. But she probably missed a note right now.

[Cainehill]

Yeh. Someone definately doesn't believe in "innocent until proven guilty", or "beyond a reasonable doubt". After all - hypothetically, it'd be more likely that the host or the person with the master password was doing any digital manipulation of game files.

Or that a bombastic flake with an obsession and a grudge was framing someone. All that is hypothetical - but juries have acquitted on less grounds.

Speaking of people with obsessions - Stormbinder, stop sending me private Messages. I have told you this before : anything you want to say to me, say in public instead of whispering in my ear.

[Zapmeister]

Someone definately doesn't believe in "innocent until proven guilty", or "beyond a reasonable doubt".

I certainly believe in "beyond a reasonable doubt", and that's where I find myself. The notion that Stormbinder would have the ability (no offense, Stormbinder) or motivation to fabricate files framing Norfleet is laughable.

What bothers me is the fact that Stormbinder has done so much work, resulting in such great benefit (assuming the popular conclusion is correct, which as I said seems beyond doubt) and yet is getting vilification instead of thanks. Puzzling and disturbing.

[Gandalf Parker]

What bothers me is the fact that Stormbinder has done so much work, resulting in such great benefit (assuming the popular conclusion is correct, which as I said seems beyond doubt) and yet is getting vilification instead of thanks. Puzzling and disturbing.

Are you really interested? Consider this...
Maybe its because most people dont feel that the end justifies the means. In this case the means would be the tone and threads we all had to put up with. Norfleet may have been the one in the wrong, but the way such things were presented left more people on Norfleets side than on Stormbinders.

[archaeolept]

well of course ends justify means. what else could?

which isn't to say that the general implied point about tone and presentation on storm's part isn't w/out a lot of merit.

otoh, we might wonder why there was seemingly so little interest on the part of "the powers that be" (Moderators, beta testers, etc...) in the norfleet phenomenon - its not like there wasn't a tide of complaints about the overpoweredness of clams, of VQ's, of castling; all originating specifically in these games. No one thought that where there was so much smoke there might be fire? It has been months since those first examples of norfleetian excess. But the response of many was just to insist that there couldn't be a problem, whether the problem turned out to be norf or game mechanics, and to not even pursue any investigation into the source of all these complaints upon their own initiative.

storm may well have been distasteful in his public pursuit of norfleet, but in the end his hounding actually gave results.

personally, i'm glad to know that castling and clamming are likely not such big problems as they originally appeared to those many of us who experienced their supposed effects first hand.

Considering this is coming from someone who 'Banned' Norfleet months ago, I would have to venture a guess that your mind was made up long before any 'proof' or 'hard work' was given. The problem with the bandwagon is it's always ready for more members, on their way to other places.

well, i believe zapmeister has actually played games w/ norfleet, unlike some others.

I'd have to say if Norfleet was cheating he either A.) Didn't give much credit to the people he was playing (considering his paranoia I'd not bet on this) or B.) Didn't care (that follows in with a conversation I had with him previous). Since it was such an obvious and easily trackable game that he was 'caught' in, on another's server, without hidden access to the game files, master password enabled, score graphs enabled, and others. If he really wanted to keep any sort of cheating on the down low, it would be uncommonly stupid to do it in an extreme that was not reasonably explainable with file proof.

Take it for what it's worth, but I doubt this 'situation' occured without cooperation from the perpetrator.

well, i believe zapmeister has actually played games w/ norfleet, unlike some others.

So have alot of others, though you may not care to consider that.

Also, if one cheats in one game, that must mean you cheat in every game from your very beginning to the very end, yes? Or more appropriately, if one has cheated, that means he has always cheated regardless of game(s)?

I'm not saying that he couldn't/wouldn't. But I doubt it could be said for every, *single* game.

[Gandalf Parker]

otoh, we might wonder why there was seemingly so little interest on the part of "the powers that be" (Moderators, beta testers, etc...) in the norfleet phenomenon - its not like there wasn't a tide of complaints about the overpoweredness of clams, of VQ's, of castling; all originating specifically in these games. No one thought that where there was so much smoke there might be fire? It has been months since those first examples of norfleetian excess. But the response of many was just to insist that there couldn't be a problem, whether the problem turned out to be norf or game mechanics, and to not even pursue any investigation into the source of all these complaints upon their own initiative.

I thought you were smarter than that. Norfleet was in fact a well worn topic of discussion in the dominions developer forum. And in the shrapnel Moderators forum. Norfleet had sanctions against him and a watchful eye on his actions well before Stormbinder started being so loud. You sound like a high school kid who is mad that he doesnt know what goes on in the teachers lounge.