SE5 - Strategies

[FLX]

Compiling those scripts before using them will prevent the players to do those "uber scripts", you can limit the number of lines of code or limiting the times that you command the same, and of course, it IS a push button system if you dont use tactical combat. I think it really is backwards, i mean, scripting the strategies would give deepness to the game, and a more customized behavoir of the ships. If you want fully human interface, use tactical combat, but you can't choose in pbw games.

[davewski]

The one mini example I saw posted consisted of a nested series of IF:THEN statements involving IF the opponent has these ship types, THEN choose this tactic. IF they have THAT, then do that tactic. What kind of decision making is involved with something like that? It seems to try and become a one-size-fits-all methodology that takes much of the decision making out of ship design, fleet design, formations, and choice of tactics. I am referring specifically to the strategic combat system as I won't be playing many games against computer opponents.

Now, it is quite possible with new game ignorance that I simply don't appreciate what people are referring to regarding these scripts. If this is true then I'll shut up now. If not, then I'd like my opinion voiced as a person most likely to purchase the new game when it comes out.

[Master Belisarius]

Don't undersand very well, those complaints about ONLY the "uber" programers or more experienced players, would be able to do the best scripts.

To me is pretty obvious that would be allowed to save those scripts, and post them as part of more AI scripts or saved as strategies scripts itself or something like that.
Then, every human player would be able to use combat scripts done by others.

Given the opportunity to the fans to customize more things, the game would be better and better.
We had a taste comparing the TDM AIs vs the Stock AIs. But if we could start to use better scripts/tools, then, for sure the game will be a lot more interesting for SP, but also for MP games.

[tesco samoa]

plus the se universe has a good habit of sharing and explaining. I think our track record at this site shows that.

[davewski]

That sharing aspect is actually one of the potential issues. I'll use a specific analogy.

I play Star Wars Galaxies. In that game various character classes have abilities and can use specific combat maneuvers giving them certain advantages in combat. People can create macros string together various maneuvers so that pushing one button executes the entire sequence. Eventually, people figured out that by combining classes 'X' and 'Y', using technologies '1' and '2', and stringing together maneuvers 'a' and 'b', they could create macros resulting in nearly unkillable, unbeatable characters in PvP. This has resulted in situations where most everyone who wanted to compete equally in PvP had to adopt similar methods. It basically eliminated any type of real decision making. People just went into combat and executed the same macros over and over. This made a lot of people very unhappy. The game developers have had to play catch up ever since constantly revising weapons, classes, and maneuvers to try and balance out the situation.

That type of situation could occur in a game like this by allowing people to create fully automated scripts for simultaneous combat. People are smart and eventually someone would figure this out. Anyone who wouldn't have a similar script could be at a severe disadvantage. People would share the scripts with each other and the game could become a cookie-cutter game where most people take race X or Y; techs 1,2,3; build designs a,b,c; use combat scripts A,B; or most likely lose a multi-player game.

It might not actually happen, but it is a subject to consider. Personally, I like the current system of manually programming maneuvers for ships and fleets. It's a bit more micro-management, but it creates uncertainty. Choose the wrong tactics or strategy and you lose. Sometimes you lose even when choosing right. That's what war is all about.

[tesco samoa]

right now you do not manually enter ship movements or battle plans. it is all done by the computer.

[davewski]

I am not referring to tactical combat. I am talking about simultaneous combat in the multi-player game. Everyone must choose tactics and targeting priorities for each ship and fleet prior to engaging combat. Otherwise the computer simply uses a default. The manual decisions people must make about how to design ships, fleet organizations, targeting orders and movements, and how to integrate them all together decides who wins combats in the multi-player games.

That is the manual aspect I am referring to.

[Tanus]

Davewski - Tactical combat mode where you can input your orders is not currently possible in multiplayer - only single player. As such, the computer deals with all combat already - we're just trying to make it better and smarter for SEV.

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As for what I'd like to see, I must agree with most of what's been said already.

First, with regards to retreats, if your ship is faster, and hasn't been sucked in close to the enemy, it should be able to get away, rather than trapped in corners, as has been said.
As for slower ships able to retreat, this should also be possible so long as you are able to delay the attacking warships long enough for the ship to make its getaway.

For example, it would be worthwhile to place a few escorts with a convoy of colony ships, and if attacked, the escorts would attack and attempt to delay the attacking ships long enough for the colony ships to get enough head start to escape from the attackers. Of course, if the attackers were strong enough to just blow through your escorts, they're not going to be slowed down enough to prevent them catching the fleeing non-combatants.


Secondly, initial 'placement' of ships and bases definitely requires more input. Even if there is not a manual placement option (which would be very nice, and could be set for a fleet when it's created or modified), there needs to be more specific options for where they are located in battle. I just recently had a battle, where I was defending a warp point, and while my mobile defences were enough to win the battle, all of my static, immobile defenses - bases, etc - appeared in the bottom corner of the map and had no chance to fire at all.
Being able to specify that a base is orbiting a planet or defending a warp point would be very helpful in that regard.

Thirdly, I definitely like the idea of either sub-units (Groups of ships that always stay together) and general orders that prevent weaker ships from charging ahead of the main fleet and being slaughtered on their own.