PBW PvK Proportions Game #2

PvK · #1 August 18th, 2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

csebal said:

Quote:

If a 4-year investment by a strong colony can be considered 'free' from a certain perspective, then I suppose so.

Compared to the regular facility, which takes 40+ years to build for a lesser effect? Well, compared to that, a system wide facility that 'only' takes 4 years to build is virtually free. Thats how i meant it.

I understand, and sympathize a little. I was just stating the counterpoint.

Quote:

Good observation. Question is, of course, how long should it take to build a Value Improvement Plant? What is a Value Improvement Plant, really, anyway? How desirable is it for players to be able to simply ADD value to any planet in a linear fashion (since it lets them essentially change the map)? Etc.

As the planet value adds to the effect of EVERY resource generator on that planet, i think the value improvement facilities are quite valuable.

Sure they're very valueable from the point of view of a player wanting to have one for themself. From the point of the mod designer, or of a player thinking about the type of game he wants to play, though, I think it can be desirable to limit the most powerful effects, particularly ones which don't make a lot of sense and/or which remove interesting limits which would otherwise need to be worked around. That's one of the main design themes of Proportions mod: find the things which are seem more powerful than they should be and that remove interesting choices from the game by offering ways around otherwise-interesting problems. If you can cheaply change the atmosphere of planets, or raise the value of all planets to maximum, then once that is done, the map is much less interesting because planets which were once uniquely valuable are now just average.

Quote:

Ya it sounds like you prefer a slightly faster pace than the design parameters of Proportions, which I can certainly understand. Good to know.

Well, in singleplayer, i'm quite happy with the original pace, as i have all time of the world to play, and can run turns as fast i prefer.

In multiplayer games however, i found the proportions pace to be somewhat sluggish.. with turns only coming once a day - a year can pass by the time you build an arcology with the current constr. yard / facility stats. Even if it 'only' takes 100 turns to build, thats an average of 3 months, considering a one turn / day game speed.

This can - but again, this is rather subjective - make one feel like a snail, trying to reach the top of Everest.

In Proportions multi-player, the goal should be something more like dominating the valley below Everest, because it will be 200 years before you have the technology to survive on top of Everest. There are still plenty of things to do that can be done on a shorter time scale. Maybe I should specify some victory conditions for these games, so people aren't stuck thinking they are supposed to turn the entire quadrant into utopias before getting down to business?

Quote:

Your comments and observations have been quite helpful. Thanks, and please let me know if you have any further feedback!

PvK

I'll certainly do. I may not agree with every change made, but all-in-one, i like your mod. Talking about it: any news about the final Version?

I'm sorry about the delay. I was supposed to get to finish it on Monday, but have had a steady stream of unexpected people wanting me to do unexpected major tasks immediately. I am now thinking Friday.

PvK

csebal · #2 August 19th, 2004, 04:53 AM

We'll see how the new game runs. I'm sure it'll be full of action, but i'll miss having really developed worlds, as building something for two - real life - years will probably not be an option when you have possible enemies - aka allies - around you.

To repeat myself: we'll see what happens.

PvK · #3 August 21st, 2004, 10:51 PM

Ok, believe it or not, I am going to post 3.0 today!

I have been adding a bunch of adjustments which I hope you'll agree are neat. I'm still testing and making Last-minute tweaks, but it will be available a bit later today.

Oh boy, new forum icons today...

Hmm, eyes but no nose: [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon10.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon10.gif[/img]

PvK

PvK · #4 August 22nd, 2004, 12:36 AM

Mmm, well, got stuck messing with Stellar Manipulation. I may have to finish it tomorrow morning.

csebal · #5 August 22nd, 2004, 08:01 AM

Sounds good.

It may not be an issue, but i spotted something weird in the 3.0 preview. Looking at the tech tree (if you turn the all tech visible option on), the game throws an error.

It may not be a problem in the stock 3.0, but i think it costs nothing to check.

Too bad my friend, who also plays in our game just went to holiday this saturday

Would the others kill me, if i would ask you to delay the game until next sunday?

Just joking. I'll try to get his passwords, so we don't have to wait trough the 48 hours for each turn.

AMF · #6 August 22nd, 2004, 09:49 PM

Actaully, one of the players in the #2 game is out of pocket until the 26th due to a family emergency, so maybe a few more days won't be a bad idea..?

Ragnarok-X · #7 August 23rd, 2004, 11:40 AM

So how is it going PvK

csebal · #8 August 24th, 2004, 05:26 AM

Well, thats two people out of game #2 already... then i would say it cant hurt to wait a few more days.

Sure, there are still 6 of us there, but personally i dont mind the wait, as i rather play with all the players there, instead of waiting 48 hours for every turn.

Thats not good for us, and not good for them either, because they'll miss the first few turns that way, and thats quite annoying.