2004 Presidential Election.

[Atrocities]

We really need a better way.

[Will]

Well, I've been moving around the past few days, so I missed this thread. So I am going to belatedly jump in

In a perfect world, I would probably vote Libertarian, and have Badnerik actually win. I don't entirely agree with all of his proposals (and that is most likely impossible anyway), but I agree with most.

However, that is over-ruled by the fact that I do not want Bush in the White House. It is my opinion that he has sided with his hawkish advisors too often, and messed up relations with the rest of the world (I was going to say warmongering advisors, but that wouldn't be diplomatic ). There are a lot of people that don't think that is a big deal, usually because they have an isolationist view on international politics. But from what I've learned of history, all isolationist states end up having more harm than good come from ignoring the rest of the world. Like it or not, we live in a world with many different cultures, and agression is not the way to deal with it.

I also think that he has largely ignored most domestic issues, including the economy. In my view, cutting taxes and lowering pollution regulations is not an economic policy. The "trickle-down theory" for taxes has one huge, glaring flaw in my view, and that is the assumption that if those citizens with large incomes pay less of that income in taxes, they will spend more in the private sector. But it turns out that a lot of them don't spend, they save. Which ties up a lot of capital where it cannot be used to create products and jobs. From what I know of what Kerry wants to do, the tax cuts will shift from benefitting mostly the upper classes to benefitting the lower-middle to middle class. Here, the trickle-down theory is more applicable, since people in those income brackets are more likely to do things like fix the garage roof, or replace the broken basement door. I know this because that's what my parents did with their tax return checks this summer, when they otherwise would have just let those projects slide.

I remember one of the big issues for the 2000 election was education. It's not being made a big issue this election it seems, but I was really pissed about the so-called "Texas Miracle" being brought nation-wide. I managed to escape to college before it effected me, but after going through public school, I know that the whole "No Child Left Behind" is not the way to go about education. The big deal was, under Gov. Bush in Texas, a large majority of public school students "passed" with basic or better proficiency a standardized test, where not as many did this before. What wasn't spread around much was the little bit of information that this was accomplished by lowering the standards on the tests (eg. now answering 4 out of 10 right is ok, instead of 7 out of 10; these aren't real numbers, just made up to illustrate point). So now with "No Child Left Behind", we have flawed tests at every grade level, taking up money, time, and resources that could be used on real education, instead of encouraging schools to teach only the materials on these tests.

I am also made extremely uncomfortable by the large role that Bush's religious views play in his policies. I don't have a problem with a person having religious views, but I do have a problem with religion in public office. That is just one step too close to theocracy, and a theocracy will inevitably persecute those not of a particular religion who happen to be living under that government. Kerry, while still being religious, has shown some ability in distancing himself from his beliefs when it comes to public policy.

As for the military, Atrocities was complaining about how Clinton reduced the military during his term. I say he had good reason to! The military was the size that it was because of the Cold War, and like was already stated, we increased our military in order to cause the Soviets to increase theirs, our economy could handle it, theirs couldn't. But our economy couldn't handle it indefinitely, only longer than the Soviet economy could. So, when there was no reason to have a huge military, cuts were made. I'm not sure of exactly when the study for the re-alignment of troops was started, but that should also have been completed by around the end of Clinton's second term, instead of happening now at the end of Bush's term. Our military is plenty large, and would be still too large if not for our participation in two theatres of war. The fact that Bush is looking at ways to make even more troops available (while making sure that draft board positions remain filled) makes me worried that if he gets a second term, he'll start yet another war, in the name of the "War on Terror"... and then want to draft me. If that happens, well then I will gladly renounce citizenship, because this country obviously will not be the land of the free I thought I was born in.

Anyway, that's just how I see things.

[Colonel]

I cant vote as im not old enough to but I wish Kerry will win because bush is bound to be the dumbest idiot in the world and should be gotten out of office as soon as humanly possible. If he wins again we all might as well go kill ourselves because there wont be much of a world left after another four years of Govener Bushey's Reign of Terror over the world

[Will]

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

Douglas Adams was a genius.

[Kyro_Hawk]

"I am gods sock puppet, he has his hand so far up arse that his words are all that pop out." - Mr. Smith - Jeremiah

I say we all forum our own political group and go nominate one of our people in 2008. Oh wait; by posting this, I just marked myself as a terrorist.

Why is it that is in a free nation, when any one speaks of forming a new political group, they are denounced as a lunatic fringe and subjected to FBI surveillance, harassment, and even for some, imprisonment?

WE ARE NOT A NATION OF FREEDOM, we are a captive nation under the control of large corporations who will never share the power with any one not on their pay roll.

Mark me a crackpot, but follow the money. Where does it lead? Why would any one want to become President of the USA? Power and money.

He who has the gold makes the rules. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. These statements have been proven time and again to be true. And those, like me, who ask the questions or make the statement, are often branded as crackpots or conspiracy theorist in order to devalidate what we say.

People are sheep and the will believe anything they are told so long as believing it ensures that their way of life will not be effected. One step at a time, one right, one freedom, and eventually we will have nothing left and then all those who turn a blind eye will scream "why did you let it happen?" They will accept no responsibility for it, and they will, as they have been trained to do by television, and programming from birth, blame everyone else for the problems they now face.

Kerry is as honest as Bush and I would not wish to vote for either of them. But given Kerry's propensity to take, I think the safest bet is to vote for the arsehole.

Make no mistake, in twenty to forty years things around the world are going to get a lot worse as our planets oil reserves run dry and our resources dwindle. It is already happening, and instead of concentrating on protecting what we have or looking to new sources, we fight over whets left.

There is a reason we do not want the sand jockeys having WMD's. With WMD's they can protect their oil, without them, the rest of the world can take it.

This war was not about terrorism; it was about oil and only oil. The rest was, and is BS. And no matter who is in office, the objective will always be about oil. Oil is money, and money is power, and power rules the world.

Call me a loon, but remember, in order to hear, you must listen, and those who seldom listen never hear.

[tesco samoa]

Well one things you USA people will not have to worry about.

WHo ever is voted in will be hated around the world. Just as bush was, just as clinton was and just as much as the ones before clinton as well.

I do not understand why people think that voting bush out of office will go back to some acid coded vision that the world will love USA again. When it never did.

Remeber who you vote for. Govn't wins. Which also happens to be some old school rich white guy.

To me your 2 big parties are one and the same.

[Colonel]

tesco samoa said:
Well one things you USA people will not have to worry about.

WHo ever is voted in will be hated around the world. Just as bush was, just as clinton was and just as much as the ones before clinton as well.

Um, I dont know if you know but Clinton was loved by a bunch of countries includeing UK (granted they follow us no matter what) alot of african nations, hell even the Russian President Yelson liked Clinton. As for Govener Bushey the reason everyone hates him is because he is trying to inforce a radical right wing agenda

[Gandalf Parker]

Kyro_Hawk said:
I say we all forum our own political group and go nominate one of our people in 2008. Oh wait; by posting this, I just marked myself as a terrorist.

Why is it that is in a free nation, when any one speaks of forming a new political group, they are denounced as a lunatic fringe and subjected to FBI surveillance, harassment, and even for some, imprisonment?

Actually there are many parties and more forming all the time. http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm
In fact if we had only two parties running this time then I wouldnt be so worried about the outcome.

Kerry is as honest as Bush and I would not wish to vote for either of them. But given Kerry's propensity to take, I think the safest bet is to vote for the arsehole.

Considering Bushes tendency to send, I dont think that "safest" is the word I would use there. The most personally profitable maybe, but not safest.

I want to create a new party. Its called the seesaw party. We consider both major parties to be dangerous if left in office too long so we vote back and forth with each election so they will balance each other out.