Unique ruins techs

[Nitram Draw]

The ruins are a good way to get a lot of new techs into the game without adding racial traits or modding the whole tech tree.
The question is how to get the AI to use them all. They would have to find each level to advance them unless the tech could show up as an addition to an existing tech tree. Would it work this way, Ultra shields are part of the shield tech tree but unavailable for use until the tech is discovered on a ruin? If so then a tremendous amount of techs can be added that the AI would use automatically.

[Mark Walton]

How I see it working, the AI can be scripted to research the various Ultra-Techs at the earliest point the scripter wants them to start. Then, at any point if they get the ruins tech, they would start researching the resulting ultra-tech.

If they CAN be traded, then I would make the first level of Ultra-Tech just be equivalent to the basic ruins tech. Perhaps, even, remove any items from the ruins tech - you can't build massive planetary shields by getting that tech, all it does is lets you research the ultra-tech tree! This means, quite elaborate ruins items can be added in safety, because ruins tech itself adds nothing to the race. Only if they research the clues they find, can they develop any technology.

[Nitram Draw]

My thinking was if a tech could be added as a part of the tree, in this case shields, but keep the component/facility from being available until the ruins tech was found. Then the AI would automaically use it if it found the tech, no reprogramming would be needed. I think the AI looks at abilities and families when building, not the actual names or descriptions of the items.
If this is actually how it works then any number of new techs could be added and then some ruins techs would finally be worth using. Judging from the responses in this thread the current ones are duds.

Another thought, can a racial tech also be a ruins tech? That might be cool.

[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 12 June 2001).]

[Mark Walton]

Yeah that should work, make an item with an extra tech requirement.

I tried making a tech both racial and unique, I didn't do an exhaustive test but colonized dozens of ruins - never once got the special tech, often got *nothing* and no message - I presumed this was me finding the racial/ruin stuff and not being allowed to get it.

[Omega]

I have seen AI races build planetary shield generators. The generators take way too long to build for the small amount of protection that they provide.

I have also seen the unique techs not be unique. I have encountered AI players that have the same “unique” tech as I have. I have no idea why that is.

The massive shield depleter and other massive weapons are totally useless. They do not do enough damage and have that asinine 30 turn reload rate. 1k of shield damage is pathetic for a “massive” weapon. How about 10k of damage or 3 turn reload rate. This would make the weapons actually worthwhile.

I prefer to find cargo II or some other useful tech rather than any of the massively useless techs. When I get the massively useless shield depleter I feel as if I’ve gotten the booby prize!

[Nitram Draw]

There are only 4 unique techs so you are right, they aren't very unique.
I would like to see 20 - 25 unique techs to give some variety. I think it could be done by modding advanced Versions of the current techs with the same family numbers and tech requirements. That way the AI may actually use them if it is a tech they normally research.

[Sinapus]

Well, I had a little time after I came home from work today and I did a little playtesting with the planetary shields. Hooray Map Editor. Put a moon on a homeworld and gave it the unique ruins to get Massive Planetary Shields very early. Then used the cheat codes to rush research and production.

First, I confirmed that the regular ones that come with the game do not block phased weapons. Then I went in and changed the shield type to phased shield generation, like what the regular ones use. That worked and blocked the phased poleron beams I was using.

Then I made ten other entries for the shield and gave them two tech requirements. Massive Planetary Shields and a level of Shields tech and increased the shield strength by 500 per level. As I advanced shield tech, a new Version of the planetary shield became available. Upgraded as I go and ran test combats. The shield rate increased.

So, the only thing the shields won't stop are troop drops and null space cannons. Now the question is, how high do I want to set them, keeping in mind that there are only 30 combat turns and things like shield regeneration are an insult to injury...

(I consider an upper limit of 20k shields to be excessive to say the least. Or maybe I should drop the number of upgrades available since any modded AI that builds these things are going to be spending 25k minerals per upgrade.)

[BeeDee10]

VEERS: My lord, the fleet has moved out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

VADER: (angrily) The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel came out of light-speed too close to the system.

VEERS: He felt surprise was wiser...

VADER: He is as clumsy as he is stupid. General, prepare your troops for a surface attack.


I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with being able to raise a planetary shield too strong for conventional orbital bombardment to break, provided troops can still land. If nothing else, you can blockade the planet. And if there's no gravitational shield facility, the Death Star can still blow the place to smithereens...


[This message has been edited by BeeDee10 (edited 14 June 2001).]

[ZeroAdunn]

Why not add some of the race pic techs to ruin techs. Maybe like a tech that just gives organic armor, or alliegence subverter, that would be cool.

[ZeroAdunn]

Doh! posted twice.

[This message has been edited by ZeroAdunn (edited 14 June 2001).]