A question on Atlantis

[Huzurdaddi]

Hmmm, just ran a test.

Conscripted 51 of these really expensive mages.

Fire 5
Water 10
Air 10
Earth 7
Astral 4
Death 4
Nature 5
Blood 6

Looks like of random to me. I *suppose* the W5 guys are really good, but that's a lot to pay.

I would rather have a 1W2S guy that I could use 16 communicants with and be able to cast 8 nifel flames before passing out ( of course the problem is that if the combat runs any amount of time all of the communicants will die ... ahh the one problem with communion ).

[Boron]

Huzurdaddi said:
Hmmm, just ran a test.

Conscripted 51 of these really expensive mages.

Fire 5
Water 10
Air 10
Earth 7
Astral 4
Death 4
Nature 5
Blood 6

Looks like of random to me. I *suppose* the W5 guys are really good, but that's a lot to pay.

I would rather have a 1W2S guy that I could use 16 communicants with and be able to cast 8 nifel flames before passing out ( of course the problem is that if the combat runs any amount of time all of the communicants will die ... ahh the one problem with communion ).

nice test .

the 1W2S guy you have already in your Deep Seers though with 3W2S !

CR negates the damage from niefel flames though ?

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
Hmmm, just ran a test.

Conscripted 51 of these really expensive mages.

Expensive? Compare them to Starspawn, Black Sorcerors, Vanadrott's or Panii for some obvious examples.

[Huzurdaddi]

Expensive? Compare them to Starspawn, Black Sorcerors, Vanadrott's or Panii for some obvious examples.

They are really expensive. 290 for a non-sacred mage is a lot of coin.

[The Panther]

Yes, I agree that they are a bit too expensive, maybe by 50 gold or so. But it is probably due to the fact that the two randoms is in the same ability, which is much better than 2 level 1 skills in general.

However, no matter the cost, Atlantis has to build them in order to get magic versatility.

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
They are really expensive. 290 for a non-sacred mage is a lot of coin.

Black Sorcerors are F2E2D1?1 and 250 gold.
Pan are N3E2?1 for 350 gold.
Starspawn are S3W1?2 and 280 gold.
Vanadrott are A3B1?1 and cost upkeep like 200 gold units.

Kings of the deep cost more because they have excellent physical stats, so they are much harder to kill than human mages.

Kings of the Deep give you great access to both ritual magic and forging. They give Atlantis the ability to use every path of magic that's available. Voice of Tiamat gives you all the elemental gems. Deep seers give you astral, and the Kings of the Deep give you the death, nature, and blood.

[Yossar]

Kings of the Deep are definitely priced fairly. What other nation can recruit mages with 2 strength of every type? R'lyeh can, but they'll need about eight times as many as Atlantis to do it. Also, underwater provinces tend to have very good income and with lobsters and coral guards, Atlantis is the best at taking them. So they can afford a lot of mages. It would be nice if Kings of the Deep couldn't come with Astral, but it's probably not worth the effort to code in.

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

Black Sorcerors are F2E2D1?1 and 250 gold.
Pan are N3E2?1 for 350 gold.
Starspawn are S3W1?2 and 280 gold.
Vanadrott are A3B1?1 and cost upkeep like 200 gold units.

Kings of the deep cost more because they have excellent physical stats, so they are much harder to kill than human mages.

Kings of the Deep give you great access to both ritual magic and forging. They give Atlantis the ability to use every path of magic that's available. Voice of Tiamat gives you all the elemental gems. Deep seers give you astral, and the Kings of the Deep give you the death, nature, and blood.

i think the kings of deep are a bit too expensive .

-the black sorceror has 6 paths in total and costs 40 gold less . it transforms when wounded into an spider .
F2E2 makes excellent battlemagic .

-the pan : he has excellent battlemagic : charm , blade wind , with random fire pick magma eruption etc.
furthermore with turmoil he generates hordes of freespawn troops , the maenads
he is even more tough than a king of the deep because he can buff himself with e.g. personal regeneration , ironskin/invulnerability etc.

-the starspawn : 6 instead of 5 paths , the astral 3 is very useful in battle .
10 goldcost less then the king of the deep and very good HPs too .

-the vanadrott : normally unneeded because the cheaper vanjarl can do almost the same for 100 less gold .
the van mages are rather good battlemages too thnx to glamour and air battlemagic .




you are correct that the Kings of the Deep give you access to every path .
but most path increasing items need lvl 3 to forge .

so ryleh is a much better candidate for this .
they get 2* paths too but their starspawns are their main battlemages too so you have normally bigger numbers of them .
ryleh can midgame forge a ring of sorcery/wizardy so they get then easier +2 to sorceries and +1 to wizardy .

if you want to reach somewhere expect water lvl 5 , e.g. earth 5 for forge of the ancients or air 5 for airqueens etc. i think normally ryleh can reach it quicker than atlantis .

the problem is just that atlantis lacks useful battlemages so they have severe problems midgame . and their abilities to make scs are somewhat limited too .

[Cohen]

Personally I think the Clam Hoarding skill of Atlantis supply totally to the cost of his mages.

Indeed the total range of Magic that is affordable by Atlantis is great.
Underwater Voice of Tiamat rules. You start to gain some income for casting all other site searching spell on surface except death and blood ... but you can always alchemize your astral pearls (clam clam).

About combat magic, Atlantis has some more difficulties, but the fact every King of the Deep can quicken, and start firing spells of every element for the Atlantis enemy is difficult to say from what to protect.

In addition Atlantis (and Ryleh) has a lot of Globals and RItuals suited for his defence.

[Karacan]

Cohen said:
Underwater Voice of Tiamat rules. You start to gain some income for casting all other site searching spell on surface except death and blood ... but you can always alchemize your astral pearls (clam clam).

Voice Of Tiamat finds all Elemental sites. That means no blood, death, astral, nature, holy and unholy. The most interesting underwatersites are astral, so it's imperative that you add an astralsitesearching spell to your mages' duties.



That said, I certainly don't share the conviction of some selfdeclared experts that Atlantis is weak. Watermagic leaves a bit to be desired in terms of summons and impressive combatmagic, but the nation itself works very well. Frozen Heart is a great spell, especially against small Groups of elite soldiers, or not frost-immune SCs.