OT: a nice RPG-ish game?

[Alneyan]

I must say my view is closer to Deccan. Torment is based on dialogue, its universe (which is borrowed from the pen and pencil RPG of the same name), but has little else to its name. At least, I get quite bored when doing battles and the like, and only the dialogues kept my interest alive in this game (they are good enough to make me love the game, however).

I would definitively not put Torment on the same level as, say, Darklands or Daggerfall, or others. So a Category should be created for this one; what about "rattling box RPG"? A game such as Albion would be much closer to the gameplay I had with Torment, or even Omkiron for this matter . These are games I did not play for their RPG side, but for their ambiance and background. On the other hand, my description quite looks like some of the Ultimas (namely Ultima VII and VIII; I did not play Ultima IX), so perhaps I am just splitting hair.

[Beorne]

I understand that someone palyng DomII games is more PC oriented then console oriented, but no-one has considered anj jap like RPG!

If one loves freedom of movement (some one remembers 'Fairy tales' (or something like) on Amiga?), unique char deploying, balanced difficulty, the JRPG are not so good. But on the other hands, if one likes the storytelling aspect, they are the top.
I started playing Bard's Tale, Ultima IV, V, VI, then I approached Diablo. I remember the pure Hack&Slash of Diablo, and I didn't liked it. If I go for H&S and dont' bother the story I want a very deep system, like Dom2 or ADOM or NH. The JRPG dont' have a very balnced system, often are easy and sometimes frustrating. But some have the finest world and story (ancd characters) ever built.

Some titles i have in mind:
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Final Fantasy VII, IX (PS, PS2)
Xenogears, (PS)
Vagrant Story (not really an RPG but beautiful) (PS)
Suikoden, (PS)
Final Fantasy Tactic (PS)
Front mission III (PS)
these Last two are 'strategic' JRPG, some worsd to indicate tactical party combat game with RPG elements.

[Cainehill]

Beorne said:
I started playing Bard's Tale, Ultima IV, V, VI, then I approached Diablo. I remember the pure Hack&Slash of Diablo, and I didn't liked it. If I go for H&S and dont' bother the story I want a very deep system

I didn't care for the original Diablo myself - ugly and tedious and shallow. The sequel, especially after the expansion, has been a different matter - I know I've gotten at least a couple thousand hours out of it.

Vagrant Story (not really an RPG but beautiful) (PS)

Vagrant Story was amazing. The atmosphere and attitude they managed to put into a game on the original playstation was ... incredible. The intro and cut scenes were great, and gameplay was very good and deep too. I still remember some of the bits of spoken dialogue though: "Reinforcements? I _am_ the reinforcements."

Final Fantasy Tactic (PS)

Another great one - definately not an RPG, but quite the turn based tactical battle game, with a tiny bit of RPG flavor mixed in.

Some of the others (Final Fantasy I-XXVI ) and Xenosaga, Xenogears, were quite good - FF too often had lame mechanics though, but nice storylines. Hmm - you didn't mention the Vandal Hearts games, or Ogre Battle/Ogre Tactics, which are rather like FFTactics or Suikoden. Brigandine was another fun turn-based fantasy army game.

And other good console RPGs included the Wild Arms series, and Skies of Arcadia (Dreamcast, but later ported I think), and a ... hybrid, Valkyrie Profile.

All of those have stayed in my collection, even as I moved across the country in a UHaul (sold about 50 console games though).



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[Beorne]

Some of the others (Final Fantasy I-XXVI ) and Xenosaga, Xenogears, were quite good - FF too often had lame mechanics though, but nice storylines. Hmm - you didn't mention the Vandal Hearts games, or Ogre Battle/Ogre Tactics, which are rather like FFTactics or Suikoden. Brigandine was another fun turn-based fantasy army game.

And other good console RPGs included the Wild Arms series, and Skies of Arcadia (Dreamcast, but later ported I think), and a ... hybrid, Valkyrie Profile.

All of those have stayed in my collection, even as I moved across the country in a UHaul (sold about 50 console games though).



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Vandal hearts 1 vas simple but very good, the second disappointed me.
The FF serie has hights and lows: IV, VI, VII, IX are beautiful (the story, the mechanic is a bit boring), the V is horrible, VII and X are controversial (but have beautiful graphics).
The Ogre games are very good, and I've never played Brigandine.
I liked very much Wid Arms 1 too, but Wild arms 2 has been ruinded by the text fonts (how one can ruin a game with the fonts???).
And Valkyrie profile ... perhaps the mastrepiece of PS with Vagrant Story, a beautiful and sad poem.
If you like these I advice you on Disgaea (for PS2).
But the SNES-PS era is almost gone.

[tinkthank]

Hey, thanks so much to everyone. Havent really had the time to try out many of the suggestions (still havent found a way to get english orig Gothic2 or Vampires), and I cant get SystemShock2 to run (argh), but I did look (way too briefly) at the spiderweb and the KOTDP suggestions -- the latter seemed most enticing but not my cup of tea (at the moment -- it is certainly a novel idea, but I didnt quick get the knack of clan-RPG), and the former seems interesting, albeit *very* old-school (I had expected something more innovative from the indies), and definately worth more time. I have yet to find Betrayal in Krondor, Knights of E-Evil, and Knights of the Old Republic.
Thank you all very much for your help (I read *all* the Posts and made mental notes of all opionions -- thanks!).

As a parting shot: I think I know what you mean by "more adventure than RPG", regarding PS:T, but I think it is because of the battle system and its fairly inflexible, never-really-fleshed-out character progression system. But I think this is inherent to the "RP" aspect of the RPG; you really *can't* just be anyone in that game, you really have to be the Nameless One. God, was I in RPG heaven. And for someone who spent 3 years researching socio-onomastics and the philosophy of singular terms, the whole name/lack-of-name business was just godly.

[Karacan]

tinkthank said:
(still havent found a way to get english orig Gothic2 or Vampires)

Well, good news! Gothic is a german product. And while there's only three or four different voices for them all, the voice-acting itself is superb.

[tinkthank]

Karacan said:
Well, good news! Gothic is a german product. And while there's only three or four different voices for them all, the voice-acting itself is superb.

Wow, really? Gothic 2 is a german product? Does that mean its "original" Version will be German, and that the German voice acting will be the more authentic one? Wow... great news! That will actually make buying the original a piece of cake on ebay -- thanks for the tip!

[Alneyan]

Beorne said:
If one loves freedom of movement (some one remembers 'Fairy tales' (or something like) on Amiga?)

Fairy Tale seems to ring a bell for me, but I have never played that game (I had my Amiga in 1993 or so, and Fairy Tale came before I think). Out of idle curiosity, how was this game? Or is my memory wrong on this one?

[Beorne]

Alneyan said:

Fairy Tale seems to ring a bell for me, but I have never played that game (I had my Amiga in 1993 or so, and Fairy Tale came before I think). Out of idle curiosity, how was this game? Or is my memory wrong on this one?

It was a game in wch you played a young men that had to revenge his family (I think). It was fantasy. The char was seen by a bird's eye. The wonderful thing is that the world (most wilderness and a few dungeons) was HUGE. You could travel for hours encountering skeletons, other monsters and unique features of the wilderness. It produced the "Elite" enthusiasm, the joy of traveling for hours in the middle of nowhere (like in Arizona, as I remember)

[Stormbinder]

Alneyan said:
I must say my view is closer to Deccan. Torment is based on dialogue, its universe (which is borrowed from the pen and pencil RPG of the same name), but has little else to its name. At least, I get quite bored when doing battles and the like, and only the dialogues kept my interest alive in this game (they are good enough to make me love the game, however).

I would definitively not put Torment on the same level as, say, Darklands or Daggerfall, or others. So a Category should be created for this one; what about "rattling box RPG"? A game such as Albion would be much closer to the gameplay I had with Torment, or even Omkiron for this matter . These are games I did not play for their RPG side, but for their ambiance and background. On the other hand, my description quite looks like some of the Ultimas (namely Ultima VII and VIII; I did not play Ultima IX), so perhaps I am just splitting hair.

Errr... You are saying Ultima 7 and Ultima 8 in the same breath??? Most Ultima fans would call for your blood at this point. Are you sure you did not confuse numbers?

As for the Tornment and other roleplaying games - there are many different types and subgenres of RPGs, naturally. Obviously PS:T is different type of RPG than Darklands. Just like Fallout is different type of RPG from System Shock 2.

However just because one RPG is different from another, that doesn't make one of them none-RPG. RPG stands for Role Playing. In Albion that you mentioned for example, you can't roleplay at all. IIRC it has no choices, no multyply endings, and is very linera. It is still considered to be RPg, because it has mechanics and numbers, and this is fine. In PS:T in addition to all numenrs and choices how to develop your character, you roleplay more than in any other RPG that I ever played during each step of your long journey, and as I said I've played a lot of computer and none computer rpgs. So of course PS:T is RPG.