Slynky's Demise

[Lord Chane]

tesco samoa said:
Example. Looking at what I post at shrapnel and using ingame to proove to other players that I cannot be trusted and should be taken out. Getting threating emails because of ingame stuff , Getting slandered because of ingame stuff.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you betrayed me in a non role-playing game, then I might post something on the forum pointing out that you had betrayed me. I think it's only fair to warn others if a player elects to play that way. I did that after I was badly betrayed in the Mediocrity game. I would never send anyone a threatening email. In fact I posted what I did concerning the Mediocrity incident because I didn't want to send the other player anything that could be construed as negative or threatening to their personal email address. I know I wouldn't want to receive something like that, so I stuck to posting on the forum, a public place where they should feel less threatenend. And I didn't slander the other player. He used a treaty to launch a Pearl Harbor style attack on me. To compound my aggravation he was infinitely stronger than I was yet felt compelled to resort to this tactic to launch his attack. The analogy I'll use is that my empire was roughly like a medieval knight on horse back while his was like the latest M1 tank. There was no way for me to win, but he felt the need to sneak around and shoot me from behind just in case. Seems just a tad cowardly to me. So, I posted a forum message congratulating him on his spectactular victory. His answer was that he plays to win. Did I slander the other player? Only if the truth is slander. Of course the other player wasn't happy with my post. In my opinion that was because he didn't like having other players know that he employs that tactic. After all, it's much more difficult to stab an ally if you can't sneak up on them.

tesco samoa said:
To me it is a clean slate with every player every game.

Then you are a better man than I. I don't know how you can trust a player who has betrayed you in the past. If you and played several games and in each game I used and discarded you, you'd still be willing to ally with me in the next game? Sorry, I'm not that trusting.

tesco samoa said:
I read an empires descriptions. If they state they are a filthy backstabbing race... I heed the warning. Early in the game. If it is a peaceful race.... and they do not play it or there is no rp from that race... I watch out...

Well, many players don't write anything or use the stock write-up. I'm not clear on how I can tell if the racial description is what the player actually intends to use of if that too might be a deception.

tesco samoa said:
Some players i like to play with due to their rping... some because I know I will have good fights with. That is a fortunate side product of getting to know players. But I still clean the slate with them.

Same here, but I can't do the clean slate thing. From my perspective that's ignoring experiences and taking their behavior on faith. I'm not much on faith. I'm real big on empirical evidence.

tesco samoa said:
But unfortantly not everyone plays to win. I know I do not play to win.

I always play to win. There are just limits on what I'll do to achieve that goal. My behavior is more important to me than winning.

tesco samoa said:
I play for enjoyment. Which is created due to ingame experiences. Trechery , Alliances, Backstabbing, Role Playing, Harsh decissions, political victories and defeats. They are all what makes a game. The final outcome is some one has to mop the map. But getting it dirty is where the fun is at. I find if you play a game not caring if you win or lose really allows you to enjoy the game as a game.

Obviously, I can't agree completely. I don't think there's any glory in winning by betrayal. It's like a sucker punch, or shooting someone in the back. You risk virtually nothing and therefore gain virtually nothing.

tesco samoa said:
I do not understand this idea that if a player plays one way then they must be like this in real life. People act differently with each social society that they are a member of.

As Slynky said, if you don't have the same perspective then it's unlikely that I can explain it in a way that'll convey my position. I've tried using several different analogies, examples, logical connections, etc. To Subscribe to the idea that there's no correlation between a player's in game behavior and their out of game behavior, I'd have to believe that every player is able to completely divorce themselves from every experience, every bit of input, every bit of social conditioning, every feeling and emotion that they've had in real life. I'd have to believe that they can essentially create a completely new and entirely different personality every time they step into the game. Sorry, I can't do that and I can't fathom how anyone can. If you bring even one bit, no matter how small, of your true personality into the game, then you have just validated my position. The question then becomes how do otehr players separate your real personality traits from your in-game personality?

Take Geo as an example playing a game of SEIV on PBW , posting on shrapnel and (making up the rest ) going to work and then coming home to his family and then going out to play a game of ball.

tesco samoa said:Guess what I am trying to say here is that in a game of SEIV Geo can be a SOB and this does not mean that in every other aspect of his life he must be a SOB.

You are absolutely correct. Just because a player is an SOB in a game of SEIV doesn't mean that in other aspects of their life they must be an SOB. And I haven't said that they must be either. What I said is that I believe they are more likely to be an SOB in real life too. If I understand your position correctly, you see no correlation between in-game and out-of-game behaviors. I do see a correlation. I make that statement based on personal experiences, not on whim, or speculation. In some players the correlation is much stronger than in others. If you can accept that, then what's needed is a way to tell from a distance, without knowing the player concerned, how to tell how much of the in-game personality correlates with the player's real personality. Can you tell me how to do that?

tesco samoa said:
We are lucky that Geo is what he is in the PBW world and in the shrapnel world.

Yes, we are. But this isn't about Geo. It's about the position that Geo articulated. I've tried to make that clear. I'm attacking what he said, not the man himself. We can agree to disagree. Slynky and I are best friends, but we don't always agree and have had some interesting and empassioned discussions on issues we didn't see eye to eye on. But I don't take it personally when he thinks that my position doesn't make sense and I don't believe he is offended when I disagree with him. I can disagree with a person's position without finding the person disagreeable. Then again I can agree with a person's position while finding the person totally contemtable. Hitler was a terrible person, but not everything he did was terrible.

tesco samoa said:
For it would not be fun to enter a game and go. Hmm.... Lets hope I end up beside the following players because they play like this everygame so I can work to get rid of that player who I do not like from six games ago.

I'm not advocating carrying a grudge from game to game and playing to annihilate a player who wronged me a half-dozen games ago. In a non-RP game though, if a player things I'm going to treaty up with or trust them after they've betrayed me in another non-RP game, then they're being naive. If I can bring about their demise, then I'd be happy to do so, but not at the cost of my game.

tesco samoa said:
It is late and I was paged for work while on vacation.

Hopefully they didn't keep you at work too long.