I think I now understand Cohen

[Zapmeister]

Huzurdaddi said:
Ahem, mind giving the details? The turn? What's going on? Would love to hear the details!

The turn is 48, the SC is a defense 35 air queen (oh and a mega-tough Allfather has just shown up as well) the tactic is Vanheim's Van-based infiltration and raiding, backed up by ghost riders. I can't even scratch the AQ, and I'm not madcastled.

If anyone's interested in playing this position, please speak up. That would be the ideal solution, for me.

[Cainehill]

That's not really the details. What nation are you? What map? What strong points do you have?

[Zapmeister]

Cainehill said:

That's not really the details. What nation are you? What map? What strong points do you have?

Machaka, Zencradle, none

Well, I have Conjuration 9, Construction 9, Evocation 3 and about 6 in everything else. About 3rd in gem income, I think. I hold the Chalice, the Gate Stone and the Hammer of the Forge Lord. What else do you want to know?

[archaeolept]

Zap, you were overly aggressive, made a play for a huge chunk of territory too early, and got yourself in a war w/ 3 other nations as a result. you are still very strong, even if the derivatives are against you. having machaka go AI would certainly be a bit of a mess in this game - why not just try for an honorable defense? Storm has a couple vicious SC's, and raiders. you can probably respond in a similar fashion, I would think - you certainly still have a large gem income.

But i understand how a war going poorly can be very disheartening, and this game takes so much effort w/ a big war, that its not that hard to lose the will to continue. I'd suggest just bulldogging through it, and see what happens. start going defensive - storm does not have huge armies w/ which to control his territories either.

[Zapmeister]

archaeolept said:
Zap, you were overly aggressive, made a play for a huge chunk of territory too early, and got yourself in a war w/ 3 other nations as a result.

Mmm, I'm not arguing that I haven't made mistakes. I do argue, however, that people's perception (based on the score graphs) that I'm in a strong position is incorrect.

If you're going backwards with no way to arrest that backslide (and I've been trying unsuccessfully to do exactly that for some time now) then it doesn't matter how many provinces you're about to lose. It just changes the amount of un-fun time it's going to take to lose them.

why not just try for an honorable defense?

Because, as Cainehill put it, it's not a boatload of fun.

Storm has a couple vicious SC's, and raiders. you can probably respond in a similar fashion, I would think - you certainly still have a large gem income.

I cannot respond in similar fashion. I don't have SCs as tough as his, and I don't have the Vans, or any equivalent.

I'd suggest just bulldogging through it, and see what happens. start going defensive - storm does not have huge armies w/ which to control his territories either.

If there's anyone willing to do this, or perhaps even with the ability to turn the position around, I'd love to hear from them.

[Graeme Dice]

Zapmeister said:
I cannot respond in similar fashion. I don't have SCs as tough as his, and I don't have the Vans, or any equivalent.

I thought you had tartarian titans? Those with a wraith sword, jade armour, skullcap, flying boots, luck pendant and lightning ring should fatigue out an air queen even if they don't break her mirror images.

[Zapmeister]

Graeme Dice said:

I thought you had tartarian titans? Those with a wraith sword, jade armour, skullcap, flying boots, luck pendant and lightning ring should fatigue out an air queen even if they don't break her mirror images.

Righto, I can try that. Unless you want to

[Zapmeister]

I've just been reading bugthreads and whatnot where it looks like a major demoralizing (for me) event in this game has been reported. The SC I've had the most trouble with should have routed and died through lack of retreat space, but instead fought on to victory.

I'm just thinking what a huge difference it would have made to my morale if that battle had resolved as it should have, under the common understanding of how the rout rules work.

[LintMan]

Zap - I'm not an MP guy, but why not go for my friend's and I's time-honored board-game tradition when faced with certain defeat in games like Risk, etc: Sacrifice your nation in a kamikaze effort to use everything you have to take down/thwart your nemesis:
- scorched earth tactics on the territory that you're losing to him. (ie: pop killer rituals on high-pop provinces, bane venom charms on scouts, etc)
- stop fighting your other enemies, withdraw all your forces for use to fight your nemesis.
- send gold, gems, artifacts, & intelligence to any players that might also be fighting your nemesis or that have the best chance to defeat him.

The idea here is fourfold:
1) maybe you get revenge by helping take down the player that sunk you. Revenge is good.
2) the revenge motive can make a game just as or possibly even more fun/interesting than trying to win, so playing a losing game isn't such a drag.
3) These kamikaze tactics will also likely result in the game ending for you *sooner* rather than dragging on longer, so you will be free of the game without needing to go AI and disappoint anyone.
4) if in future games people know you will do this when sinking, they may not be so willing to mess with you.

win-win-win-win, IMHO.

[The Panther]

LintMan said:
Zap - I'm not an MP guy, but why not go for my friend's and I's time-honored board-game tradition when faced with certain defeat in games like Risk, etc: Sacrifice your nation in a kamikaze effort to use everything you have to take down/thwart your nemesis:
- scorched earth tactics on the territory that you're losing to him. (ie: pop killer rituals on high-pop provinces, bane venom charms on scouts, etc)
- stop fighting your other enemies, withdraw all your forces for use to fight your nemesis.
- send gold, gems, artifacts, & intelligence to any players that might also be fighting your nemesis or that have the best chance to defeat him.

The idea here is fourfold:
1) maybe you get revenge by helping take down the player that sunk you. Revenge is good.
2) the revenge motive can make a game just as or possibly even more fun/interesting than trying to win, so playing a losing game isn't such a drag.
3) These kamikaze tactics will also likely result in the game ending for you *sooner* rather than dragging on longer, so you will be free of the game without needing to go AI and disappoint anyone.
4) if in future games people know you will do this when sinking, they may not be so willing to mess with you.

win-win-win-win, IMHO.

Arch, do you understand English very well? Tell me one single thing in the above post which is childish and immature. I still think you did not actually read the words as written. The above advice was excellent!

I said nothing at all about whatever the heck is going on inside the game mentioned at the start of this thread. NOT ONE WORD! I even feel that you did not read my post either.

I merely pointed out that you skimmed a post and overracted. There is nothing written is the above post that I would not also do. And probably 95% of the other players in this game too. If any of these strategies are considered unethical, I would surely like to know this.

One thing I would never do is lay down and die to HELP a guy who is overruning me. But I suspect there are people who will do this, maybe for a future vague favor. I happen to not be one of them.