Elemental King/Queen summoning limits?

[Zen]

Artifacts are fine as they are. There is no reason that anyone should lose an artifact if they have created it (outside of the good ol' fashioned, kill'm and take it method).

As far as suggestions go:

Unique summons on the other hand could have a chance of loyalty switching (or possible going BREZERK!) if they are summoned.

Something simple yet might add another dynamic could be 25 base chance modfied +/- 5% on the difference in main path of casting unit.

Thus an Ice Devil summoned by a 3 Blood Caster first, but if summoned by a 6 Blood Caster later would have a 40% chance of deserting their original summoner and heading to join more powerful blood mage.

Or a 6 Blood Caster casts it first, and a 4 Blood Caster tries to steal him away, he'd only have a 15% chance of taking away the ID.

This could work well for the Royalty and the Blood Summons. Then of course a 10% chance from the chance of Loyalty could cause the Devil/Elemental Royalty to "GO BREZERK" (4% chance with 40% and 1.5% with 15)

[Cohen]

I believe the actual system works just fine.

Otherwise this could be scrap the Research Priorities / Rush for uniques and this could cost much more to the victim than the 2nd summoner.

If your plan is going to use your X Elemental Ruler, with full equipment, and it disappears (even if there're little chances, but it's usually 1/4) you're losing a powerful unit, a lot of gems for equipment and probably your enemy has it.
Even this could bring to a summon-countersummon til the shortage of gems waves smiling to a player, making not so usable a unit that appears one turn, and could disappear another one.
It could be a sort of Djinn ... who usually equip the Djin if not with low cost trinkets? But Djinn is very powerful, could both trapeze and teleport iirc and has many paths in magic.

[Zen]

Possibly. Why should you be guarenteed to have your Elemental Lord even if another summons is cast? I don't see the exact logic of why.

If the new Elemental came without equipment it would be fine. Even if the % was lowered by an additional 10 (15% chance) it would make it less of a "Sure thing". Though considering the cost of a Unique, I don't think 25 is unreasonable.

And I'm the one who usually rushes for uniques and gets and holds them and have them wait for equipment for exactly the reasoning that they can't be taken and forces wasted gems.

[Cohen]

I'd prefer to see the spell reverted to a Summon something lesser if the big uniques are ended.

Like if both Earth king are taken and a third guy cast it, it appears a non unique Elemental Earth Lord that could have lower stats and E3 oe E2 magic, probably not worthing 50 gems but at least you don't waste.

Well personally I'd like to see the unique number incresead a lot.

[Huzurdaddi]

I'm not sure. Astral gives you absolutely amazing battle-magic. It doesn't need summons as well.

I've had this argument before. Astral has decent battle magic. Hardly what I would call awesome.

Astral's real bonus ( in my mind ) is that it grants mobility. The combat spells are nice but not better than many other schools.

[PDF]

Huzurdaddi said:

I've had this argument before. Astral has decent battle magic. Hardly what I would call awesome.

Astral's real bonus ( in my mind ) is that it grants mobility. The combat spells are nice but not better than many other schools.

I concur to calling "awesome" the Astral battle magic : not even talking of Master Enslave, you get Body Ethereal, Stellar Cascade, Soul Slay, Paralyze, Antimagic ... !

[Huzurdaddi]

I concur to calling "awesome" the Astral battle magic

Hmm awesome would I guess indicate that it is one of the best schools. Let's define awesome as top two.

So let's compare to air. Air has a number of area effect high damage, Armor Negating, no MR check spells that are feared by all. It is widely considered to be the best battle field magic. Orb lighting, false horrors, thunderstike, wrathful skies, storm these are all considered to be "awesome" spells. I don't know if it really is #1 but many people consider it thus.

Now #2 is much harder. It could be earth. They have a number of very powerful battle spells. Blade wind, Petrify, magma eruption there are a few and they are hard ( or impossible ) to resist.

Perhaps #2 is death. Life drain can not be resisted and it is 100 precision. Death has fine battlefield summons. Banefire is considered one of the better direct damage dealing spells. It has a vast array of battlefield spells and many do not have an MR check.

No, IMO ( and I could be wrong here ) Astral magic is at best the #4 battle magic in the game. Exactly in the middle of the pack. If this is what goes for "awesome" then so be it.

[Chazar]

Cohen said:
Well personally I'd like to see the unique number incresead a lot.

If there would be hordes of unique creatures then they would not be as unique as before, wouldnt they? (Oh, yes please: refrain from commenting on this weird logic if you understand my intentions nevertheless - especially Cainehill ) I mean: Every creature is unique and every Militia man may have his own affliction, but please refrain from giving each one his own name...

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I would not like if summoned creatures could be simply summonned again. Their are already bound!
I still feel that summoning is much to much failsafe in Dom2. Mortal mages bind and bend powerful creatures like nothing! So I proposed a fail-chance (i.e. something that noticably differs from 100% or 0%) for each summon. E.g. as a first guess , kake it 20% plus 1% per additional gem or so...

[Cainehill]

Cohen said:
Otherwise this could be scrap the Research Priorities / Rush for uniques and this could cost much more to the victim than the 2nd summoner.

If your plan is going to use your X Elemental Ruler, with full equipment, and it disappears (even if there're little chances, but it's usually 1/4) you're losing a powerful unit, a lot of gems for equipment and probably your enemy has it.
Even this could bring to a summon-countersummon til the shortage of gems waves smiling to a player, making not so usable a unit that appears one turn, and could disappear another one.
It could be a sort of Djinn ... who usually equip the Djin if not with low cost trinkets? But Djinn is very powerful, could both trapeze and teleport iirc and has many paths in magic.

So why wouldn't you be happy, Cohen? You are the self-proclaimed enemy of the SC, are you not?

If people wouldn't put anything on the unique summonses except trinkets, then the Air Queens, Ice Devils, etc, wouldn't be such an overwhelming force.