MP game - "Pantheons" Started

[Lex]

Well, i'm pretty sure Flames from Afar would be quite painful to 20+ Seraphs. But in combat, I've never seen anything beat a large group of Seraphs. Maybe an army of Devils or other summons would work well. A lone SC wouldn't have a chance against the 200+ False Horrors, but a group of them would eventually push their way to the Seraphs, who would be asleep from exhaustion after so many turns.

Its also useful to know that Seraphs can't seige a fortification in a million years. Even a group of 20 Seraphs would need a half dozen turns sometimes. So building castles is a good defence against Caelum, since it means the worst they can do is cause unrest and disrupt income for a turn.

Also, is everybody forgetting that anything etheral can fly through a storm? That means etheral SCs or Ghosts or Vampires can attack Seraphs directly on the first turn. If you have more then Caelum has Seraphs, you'll win. In mid to late game, any player with a blood economy should have no problem attacking Caelum. And you don't need to attack Caelum's armies, obviously you attack Caelum's empire and force his armies into a defence posture.

Its just really expensive (or impossible) to defeat massive amounts of False Horrors with your "normal" units. And defeating it early game is almost impossible, which is why False Horror is level 6 research. But obviously it pays off to do the research and raid all you unsuspecting opponents before they can summon an army to stop you. That's simply a good strategy.

Anyways, I'm gonna stop telling you guys how to kick my ***, and get back to playing

[alexti]

Lex said:
Well, i'm pretty sure Flames from Afar would be quite painful to 20+ Seraphs.

That's why you'd better move in small Groups of 1-2 seraphs

Lex said:
But in combat, I've never seen anything beat a large group of Seraphs.

You can beat the large group of Seraphs with just one SC of the right kind. I won't tell what is the right kind though For now.

[Boron]

alexti said:

That's why you'd better move in small Groups of 1-2 seraphs

You can beat the large group of Seraphs with just one SC of the right kind. I won't tell what is the right kind though For now.

Yeah an SC of the right kind . But that is only 1 or 2 seraph armies .

It is just brutal he can strike at will on all weaker defended provinces . If you split your forces to avoid that then another teammember like jotunheim comes with a SC army and defeats one garrison after the other .
In a normal game you could probably deal with caelum better but in our teamgame we should have forbidden it imo .

[alexti]

Boron said:

Yeah an SC of the right kind . But that is only 1 or 2 seraph armies .

Yeah, but the Caelum player won't be happy to lose even one 20-40 seraph army per turn. And the right kind of SC can cloud trapeze/teleport, so it will completely prevent Caelum from using massive seraph armies. They can still raid by lone seraphs though. But on another hand, killing that lone seraphs with remote spell only costs 3-5 gems, so it's more or less equal exchange.

[Lex]

alexti said:
Yeah, but the Caelum player won't be happy to lose even one 20-40 seraph army per turn. And the right kind of SC can cloud trapeze/teleport, so it will completely prevent Caelum from using massive seraph armies. They can still raid by lone seraphs though. But on another hand, killing that lone seraphs with remote spell only costs 3-5 gems, so it's more or less equal exchange.

You Flames from Afar my capital, then jump in with some SCs that slaughter my Seraphs, move to the three neighbouring castles before I can recruit enough mammoths to take my castle back, and then one by one, you hunt down my remaining Seraph raiding parties. You could kill me in 10 turns.

Edit: granted you'd need Gate Cleavers at least to seige in one turn. and you'd have to hope that I haven't modified my strategy beyond False Horrors. But Caelum's defeat, had it been planned for, is at least in theory a real possibility.

[The_Tauren13]

I vote for re-randomizing nations for a more fair game if we have a rematch. And maybe going with random starting locations. And maybe allowing Ermor; I've been wanting to play broken empire. And maybe taking out Caelum.

[Aku]

I need to catch up and reading the rest of this page but Vampires DO NOT fly in a storm. Staff of storms was used against me in another game against my vampire army and my vamps didnt fly.

Oh and team A has NO air nations or blood nations so the counters I have read so far are impossible for us to do.

Going to continue reading the rest of the Posts.

[alexti]

The_Tauren13 said:
I vote for re-randomizing nations for a more fair game if we have a rematch. And maybe going with random starting locations. And maybe allowing Ermor; I've been wanting to play broken empire. And maybe taking out Caelum.

To ensure fair rematch, I'd vote for the same nation sets, but reversed. Besides, it would be interesting to see if all those people who suggest various counters will be able to use them in practice

[The Panther]

alexti said:

You can beat the large group of Seraphs with just one SC of the right kind. I won't tell what is the right kind though For now.

Obviously, a single air queen can stop this easy. Several flying pretenders can also. Also a flying bane lord, perhaps. But I built my pretender with my neighbor Pythium in mind, not Caelum.

The crux of the problem is that false horrors is a quick, easy research to level 6 in the preferred path for the fastest researching nation. Air queens are not only light years further away, they are impossible for our team in this game with no air races.

I think for a possible rematch, we will have to ban Caelum to be fair.

[Boron]

Lex said:

Its also useful to know that Seraphs can't seige a fortification in a million years. Even a group of 20 Seraphs would need a half dozen turns sometimes. So building castles is a good defence against Caelum, since it means the worst they can do is cause unrest and disrupt income for a turn.

Also, is everybody forgetting that anything etheral can fly through a storm? That means etheral SCs or Ghosts or Vampires can attack Seraphs directly on the first turn. If you have more then Caelum has Seraphs, you'll win. In mid to late game, any player with a blood economy should have no problem attacking Caelum. And you don't need to attack Caelum's armies, obviously you attack Caelum's empire and force his armies into a defence posture.

Are you sure about vampires etc. flying during a storm ?!?
Afaik it doesn't work .

Your fortification hint is not very helpful .... .
First some nations like ulm play usually with a high admin fort so madcastling is not an option .
Second severe madcastling is so expensive that you fall behind in research or other important areas .
Third you don't need to really siege the castles just as you said taxing to 200% is enough .
On other provinces than the capitol you can normally keep anyways a small seiging force to put unrest >100 . Often there are no mages .

The false horror is too powerful but mainly because of the problem with the fear aura as Stormbinder / Arryn suppose .

2 or 3 seraphs with a few archers can't be beaten even by a small garrison + pd .
You would need to have everywhere mages or SCs but thats impossible for a long time .

Level 6 research is earlygame , at about turn 10-12 at least you have it researched and it gives you good SC buff magic as well .

Especially in a teamgame where you get probably gold from other players you can very quickly build 2-3 new castles and spam hordes of seraphs .
No enemy expect pan cw and ermor can beat that in early - midgame reliable and not too costintensive .