Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[PvK]

This looks very nice!

My main reservation is with the increased hit points on low-hitpoint pretenders, for thematic reasons. I don't mind it that much, but pretenders already get HP bonuses for dominion, and I don't like the D&D feel of people being able to take superhuman amounts of injury. In this case it's ok I suppose since they _are_ superhuman, even if they started human.

However I do like the idea of toughening the humans by adding some equipment to them. Ethereal Robes and missile protection items and/or reinvigoration to increase the "great wizards" theme you had in mind.

PvK

[Cainehill]

I prefer to think of it as being like Glen Cook's Black Company mages - some of the Taken survived being hanged, beheaded, emtombed for a thousand years, smashing into a castle wall at about 100 miles per hour (with no seatbelt, air bags, or, mmm, car ), and worse.

That's what I think of, when I think of human mages attempting to become gods. Not someone's grandmother who could be killed by 3 good papercuts.

That said, I also have some reservations about the human mages hit points, mainly because it seems that if an arch-mage has 21 hit points, a giant mage-godling should have more than 50% more. It's a scaling problem; not that the Skratti really needs improvement, but that it seems it should be substantially harder to kill than a crone.

So - maybe a couple built in magic items might help, in place of the hit points. Ethereality, air shield, lightning immunity, regeneration (on the druids especially, who also might still get higher HPs). No uber items - as a game went on, you'd quite possibly want to upgrade the items, but enough to give them an initial bonus. (Albeit I don't think pretenders / units can be modded for things like misc items.)

Anyways - the HP increase for humans isn't bad; for instance, it makes it rather more difficult to nail a human pretender with a single Seeking Arrow, which has always been an issue with sending them out site searching.

[Zen]

PvK,

Yes, those are all good suggestions. However, when you give them additional equipment (like say a Robe of the Magi), it doesn't transfer over the actual applies bonuses of the magic item (+Paths, or Resistance, or whatever), only the physical statistics and such.

I could give someone a wraith sword as starting equipment and it wouldn't make a big deal, but giving someone say, a Rune Smasher, would not give them a penetration bonus, or Elemental Armor would not provide any resistances.

This is where you run into the limitations of the Modding tools at current.

[archaeolept]

see? everyone thinks the skratti should just be given a wraith sword...

[Zen]

The newest Version has been updated to 1.3

It has a few changes, from the original which are as follows:

Weapon: Plague Breath +1 Ammo

Dracolich +Recuperation, +Wing Buffet, +4 Prec, +5 Prot
Virtue +Astral, -Air
Skratti -> Elder Skratti +1 Att, +3 Def, +Blood, -1 Enc
Bog Mummy -> +25 FR

Please note, the Original Post Attatchment has been changed and updated to Version 1.3. If you have a hard time downloading it from techno, try the attatchment.

[Edi]

Zen, looks like you forgot to mark the Basecost for Naga and Golden Naga as changed in the readme, it's down to 90 from 100.

The Caelian Arch Seraph has also not been edited at all, so (other than flying + CR) it's currently far inferior to a lot of the other rainbow pretenders. Something sneezes too hard in its direction and it's toast.

If you (or anyone else) are interested in seeing it, I made some changes into the conceptReadme file (edited file attached). I edited out a couple of spelling mistakes and organized the changes on each pretender into a systematic order, the order of listing varied quite a bit.

I also organized the pretenders by type to the following categories: Monster, Giant, Immobile, Human (rainbow), and added an Unedited Category where the pretenders with no changes are listed. Makes it a bit easier to find what you want if you're looking for a specific pretender's changes.

There are a few pretenders that didn't really fit squarely into any one of the categories, and they are: Virtue, PoD, Medusa (listed under monsters), and Ghost King, the 3 Lich types and Bog Mummy (listed under humans despite being death specific).

Now, I might be ignorant of the finer points of balance issues, especially where multislayer games are concerned, but as of right now, your mod is getting permanent enabling on my Dom2, it makes so many previously useless pretenders attractive and even makes some of them more thematic. Great job!

Edi

[Tuidjy]

I really like these changes. I wish they could find their way into a patch.

There is something that puzzles me, though. Three of the pretenders got a
nerf. I am not going to argue against the logic of it, I will just take it as
a compliment for my taste in pretenders, as the only time I do not use the Ghost
King is when I use the Allfather.

But I wonder, how do people use the Prince of Death effectively? As early
as the middle game you have to stick him in the lab, because undead-specific
spells like Dust to Dust easily destroy him. This is not a big deal for the
Ghost king, because deep down under, he is a rainbow mage. But with the
increased path cost, the Prince of Death looks rather pointless to me.

[Cohen]

PoD is a very good choice as pretender IMO, before the Patch.

Good stats, flying, with massive fear for taking out indies.

[Thufir]

Tuidjy said:
I really like these changes. I wish they could find their way into a patch.

I like the changes, as well. But of course they'll need a good bit of playtesting (to which effort, I would be more than happy to contribute!) before it'd be reasonable to include in a patch. I'd bet IW would be quite open to incorporate these in a patch, after an appropriate level of testing.

[Zen]

Thanks Edi, that is a much better Readme than the one I had previously. I hereby make you my official editor!

Yes the Arch Seraph and a few others that have changes in mind have not been totally modified since I am looking for a little feedback on what people think or feel was a good change and what isn't a good change.

Re: PoD

The only reason this fellow didn't see more play for some people was probably because of the Ghost King. While he is the most affordable Death Pretender, he was also very easy to choose over comprable other Death Pretenders (Liches and Lord of the Gates, notably). I may end up changing him in another way while trying to retain the flavor that he is the PRINCE of Death. As of right now he's still a great choice for a Pretender but might not be viable for his preference (Death). I will have to think more on this.

Postnote: I used the PoD extensively. He was invariably always a good choice no matter the nation (baring Jotunheim), even with his weakness to Dust to Dust (especially since he has longdead friends).