Newbiegame3 , evil error

[Boron]

Lex said:
strange. I just *lost* a big battle, yet the replay shows that I won it easily! Stupid patch is messing with my battle replays! I've upgraded the patch. I thought this server was updated too.

I restarted the server yesterday so it should be 2.14 ?
Well if anybody wants to check just put 2 clams on 1 scout and see if you get 1 or 2 astral pearls

[Huzurdaddi]

I know! That's what I said!

They *have* to fix that spell. That's *ahem* why I wanted to play Caelum.

I feel like a putz using false horrors with Pythium though. When your casters are A5W5S6 at least I feel like a putz using false horrors.

There was a big clash, both sides suffered heavy casualties, and the Manchurian army was dispersed and routed.

So he attacked a special province? Damn that SUCKS. He really should have looked at what was in it before attacking. Well this will change the game ... somewhat drastically ...

God damn it.

[Cohen]

No, there was a fight beetween C'tis army, and Tien Chi one. With C'tis winning and Tien Chi losing his main army.
Probably I wasn't so clear.

[Huzurdaddi]

Well if anybody wants to check just put 2 clams on 1 scout and see if you get 1 or 2 astral pearls

While I have no clams, I am totally willing for someone to "lend" me two and I will perform the experiment.

With C'tis winning and Tien Chi losing his main army.

BUMMER for T'ien Ch'i. Well it's good for you but that means it's bad for us.

Oy.

[Thufir]

For those who are interested in my Version of the events, here's what happened, in my view. Abysia's astounding success was a combination of good tactics (if questionable strategy) on his part combined with unbelievable stupidity on mine (and forgive me if I don't give you the full rundown on all the tactical errors that I made ).


On turn 17, Abysia attacked T'ien Ch'i as follows:
238 - 1 Assasin vs. PD1
211 - 1 Demonbred, 1 Devil vs. PD1
193 - 1 Demonbred, 1 Devil vs. PD1
186 - 1 Demonbred, 2 Devils vs. PD1

If you look at the map, and note that 272 is my capital
and that 244 was still indy, you'll see what an excellent choice he made in which provinces to attack. I held 178, with a castle (which of course he did not attack until later). For all he had very light attacking forces, he knew or guessed that I had PD1 in all those provinces.

On turn 17, I was sitting on C'tis's capital (125), while Slurpy was sitting one province north, 155, leaving me no path of retreat back to my own empire. One of the biggest blunders I made was on the previous turn forgetting to make the payments to 2 key mercenary Groups. As such, on turn 17 I had an inadequate army left with the choice of staying in the C'tis capital, taking one more crack at Slurpy (assuming he moved back into the capital), or attacking 155, which could still easily leave me attacking Slurpy, perhaps with PD into the bargain. Anyhow, I chose to stay in the capital, and lost my main army, including my pretender, my prophet and two heroes. In retrospect, this was one of my many blunders. If I had attacked 155, at least I would have had a retreat path into 178, and maybe some of my key commanders and/or pretender would've survived.

From this point my prospects looked (and still do look) bleak, indeed. To everyone in the game, most especially Slurpy, I apologize for my sloppy play. Especially as the consequence is that this game looks altogether too much like a two way race between Abysia and Pythium (although at least it's not a one way race! ). As if Abysia is not strong enough to begin with, giving her TC gem income into the bargain is hardly a good thing for the game, as a whole.

In my own defense I will say that my attack on C'tis if in poor judgement, was at least understandable in that C'tis had failed to take a single province at the time I committed to attack him. That gave me (I think) good reason to believe he was weak and could be taken out quite rapidly, and in a way that would leave me stronger to face the inevitable Abysian invasion (which I'll remind everyone - Abysia started making explicit threats on turn 7).

Anyhow, roughly speaking that's what happened. From this point, I'm not sure how many turns I've got left. At the least, I hope to force Abysia to use something more than the few paltry devils that he has to date. And I will do all that I can to counterattack, and if possible, take something significant back.

[Huzurdaddi]

looks altogether too much like a two way race between Abysia and Pythium

Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.

And I had to pay the price of a combat pretender for where I am. Abysia had to pay ... nothing.

giving her TC gem income into the bargain is hardly a good thing for the game, as a whole.

Yep. Going to go swell. *sigh* this game is quite random at times. Sooner or later it will go random in my direction, I'm sure.

[Ygorl]

A newbie question: what's the point of having PD of 1?
A bit of wise advice: the game is certainly early enough that development with an eye towards resisting the infamous and inevitable Abysian hordes could make a big difference. It's a huge map, a lot can happen yet.

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.

I am sympathetic, as I have had the same thing happen to me the one time I played Pythium. That said, I am absolutely convinced it has an endgame. Sadly, I just don't know what that endgame is, and thus cannot advise.

I hope you are clamming right now. You're probably smarter than this, but one thing I didn't realise in my first game playing Pythium is that with water bracelet you can be clamming before turn 10. (I know this is stupid, but I was waiting for a 2W Arch Theurg, and then empowered when I didn't get one.)

It's possible that it takes a real expert to take advantage of Pythium's astral, but I do believe exploiting Pythium's astral strength is very important for the end game. Pythium is also in a better position than most nations to go for Wish. Another thing I'll mention (repeating various Posts I've read), is that Pythium's relatively early ability to afford and cast Acashic record may be one key to a winning endgame. So far in MP play, I have found most of my casting bonus sites via Acashic record, rather than searching, and these do potentially have a real impact on play.

These are just a couple of thoughts, I don't have enough experience to say if they have merit. But I do have a ton of experience playing various strategy games, and I have read a lot of Posts on this board, and I am absolutely convinced that Pythium has an endgame, and should not be regarded as early game (only) power.

Finally, as much as I have put the game into a bad spot by my untimely demise (driven, I admit, by poor judgement and sloppy play), there is still sufficient distributed power in this game to defeat Abysia, and as such, this game's end is not a forgone conclusion.

Edit:

Your own thread ( here) has lots of excellent advice on devil counters. You seemed pretty sceptical about archaeolept's advice, but that sounded to me like it was worth a shot. I think there is more to it then what he put in his Posts, but I do think that mages (possibly with communion) can be a part of anti-devil strategy, and that SCs and/or devils are not the only way to success in the endgame in Dom2.

[Cohen]

Thurfir, an advice.
If you went to 155 and wanted to save army, didn't engage, enter the province, set your army all behind with retreat oder.
C'tis capitol will return to his owner due to castle inside.
So unless C'tis was coming into 178, you'd have all your army saved.
If C'tis however has gone in 178 you'll get wiped out even without fighting.

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

The use of 1 PD in every province. If you've 0 PD, you don't see the battle, and you know only the enemy has taken you the province.
With 1 PD that costs 1 gold only, you see the battle, you know at least the exact enemy army composition, and what items they've.
With 5-10 PD (costing respectively 15 and 55) you gain:
Some chances to resist to a single scout/assassin and perhaps the hawks. Some PD can hold wolves too like Ulm PD.
With 10 you gain some not pop killing patrol and better chances to resist hawks and wolves.

[Huzurdaddi]

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

I've played Pythium a couple of times. I think ( but I could be mistaken ) that I know what I am talking about. Pythium's late game is crud. Sorry. It blows chunks.

Blood OTOH is solid in the end game.

Pythium's only shot for the end game is clams. Or somehow develop a blood economy and hope that as the blood SCs get poped that you can claim them.

Everyone talks about communion being great in the late game. It sucks. It is *super* in the early game. It crushes in the early game. In the late game the big armies are asking for a spell to wipe them out.