Mod Project, request from resume of ideas.

[Tuidjy]

Cohen said:Tuidji: I personally believe there isn't existing balance for many causes. That I'm changing in my mod.

I know that you believe that there is no balance, but very few people agree with
your changes. Which means that no one will use the mod. Which means that this
thread is a waste, and the valuable comments would be better posted in Zen's
thread, because his mod deserves to be made canon.

I won't explain there my modifies,

Then this mod will remain nothing but a vanity project. Not that it deserves
anything better, mind you.

but I didn't expected anything else from you, since you're only able to play with Air AbUser Nations and clams.

Funny, I thought I have beaten you with Black Forest Ulm before. But then
again, I did destroy your devil army with some indie air mages, so yes, I can't
play the game without abusing air magic. And I guess I abused clams in that
game too, because I certainly had exactly eight. And was raiding, stealth
preaching, mad castling, and chain-summoning vampires... I am such an
abuser, indeed.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are challenging me to beat you without
using an air nation (there go Man, Vanheim, Caelum, Pythium, Arco, Marignon) and
without using clams. Just to be on the safe side, I will forgo the clammers
(bye, bye Atlantis, R'lyeh, T'ien Ch'i), the devil/vampire hoarders (so long
Mictan, Ulm, Abysia, Jotunheim). Excuse, me, I forgot, is death magic
overpowered this week? Because if it is, I cannot use Ermor and C'tis either.
And Petrify is overpowered because there is no resisting it. So I guess no
Pangea, because you know, with them earth mages, I could actually get to it.

So, you want me to play Machaka? Mountain citadel and human pretenders, of
course, can't have madcastling and SCs? No problem.

Only... what are you going to play? There is nothing left! And here I was,
thinking that Dominion II is a varied, complex and above all fun game.
I want my money back, Illwinter! That's four copies you tricked me
into buying, before Saint Cohen made me see the light!

[Cohen]

I never challenged you.
In that game I was attacked from Caelum Ulm and Vanheim.

My mod will balance certain stuff, like Wrathful Skies, False Horror, and the Storm Staff. Not much more from air.
Will balance clams too.

Petrify, no. It's E5. If a nation can get it, it's because it deserves it.
Deathmagic has SC summons, but with Drain Life weapons changed probably it will be another matter.

Vampire Lords too have been changed, they can't no longer summon allies. If you want to have common vampires, use the normal spell. It costs slaves, that could be employed in another way.

[Yvelina]

Cohen, Petar was not seriously thinking that you were challenging him. He was following up your argument and reducing it to an absurd conclusion. I keep telling him that belligerant sarcasm is not exactly the best way of conveying one's point, but who is listening? His point, I think was:

There are many strategies that make a player very powerful, and her ability to implement many of them, in addition to expanding, site searching, and fortifying is what wins a game. Petar tried to show you that most races had at least one, and very often more than one strong strategy, and by removing options from Dominion, you are destroying what makes it great.

It is clear that you have taken aim at pretty much everything that can be used to quickly overwhelm a much more expensive force. But that is exactly the what makes a good player: the ability to inflict damage disproportinate to the cost to herself. Even if you remove the best ways of doing so, she will just pick up the next one.

If you keep doing it, you will be crippling the game. What is the use of magic if it cannot be used to quickly exploit a weakness of the enemy? Everything will be moving slower, there will be less oportunities to use one's skills, and the wars will Last much longer... so long in fact, that some of what you would have nerfed would again come into play.

For example, if you double the clam's cost, but also halve the game's pace, the role of clams is unchanged, you just have made the game more tedious.

You remove the ability to get Devils and Vampires for free? You make it harder to disperse archers' fiery salvos with a storm? Well, you just made the fairy queen's pixies and the undead archers much more valuable... and they are nothing to sneer at, already.

Each change has consequences that no one, not even the very best players can forsee without testing. This is why a careful approach is best, and the more respected the initiator, the better.