Fools Lament II - Ended - Mictlan wins!!!

[Huzurdaddi]

Well I made a mistake in Last turns orders. No idea how I did that, but it matters not. I am now AI.

The classless Alliance won. It's really too bad. As I said in game Anatoli11 you are 100% without class ( as is Rex_havoc ) if I find either of you in a game you should know that my only goal will be to wipe you out.

[Huzurdaddi]

And and Mictlain piling on at the end ... well ... that's pretty classless as well.

Sorry Yossar, but it is.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Now, I've been watching this game with interest to see if anything truly weird would evolve as a result of the rather interesting starting situation [which could lead me to update the scenario, so please provide feedback on that, if you would be so kind], but, alas, one other question really raises its ugly head after reading the Last few pages. As my knowledge of Dominions 2 MP is limited to smaller scale games with friends, I would like to know whether the level of personal attacks, *****ing (of the "I really mean it, scumbag" rather than the "please meet my propaganda department" variety), low-level vitriol, and immature behaviour shown by some players is typical of larger Dominions 2 MP games? Is quitting because you are losing typical or an aberration?

[Huzurdaddi]

Peter,

I am usually quite congenial as anyone who met me in the 1st 20 turns would have seen. I'm simply against gang banging at an early stage in the game. The *only* reason I stayed in the game was to butcher their armies as much as possible in hope that when I did die they would be destroyed by their neighbors. And I played 20 turns that I would rather have not played to be honest.

As for the scenario I think it's very nice. I really enjoyed the setup and the game *could* have been a lot of fun.

[baboune]

Great scenario.. really like the map.

I am hurt by the optionals we use though... No clams, no fever fetish... Hard to get enough gems...

[Huzurdaddi]

I am hurt by the optionals we use though... No clams, no fever fetish... Hard to get enough gems...

At least all sides are equally restricted. Which I was dubious about the idea at 1st I have to say that I really like it. It makes it so that nations who are not at war do not gain a huge advantage. It reduces micromanagement which I am all for. It's just a plus.

Way to go frog. I really did not think it would work out.

[anatoli11]

Glad to see you quit Huzurdaddi!

Just a few facts:
1) Turn 20 on this map is like turn 30 to 35 when every one starts with one province. In my case I was out of independents to attack, so was looking to start fighting other factions.
2) I had discussions with Huzurdaddi before attacking him and we could not come to an arrangement that suited both of us.
3) I didn't organize a "dogpile" against Huzurdaddi - I did however broadcast that I was going to attack him to all players, and it was up to them whether or not they wanted to join in.
4) Huzurdaddi constantly used immature and rude language as well as "death" threats when sending in-game Messages. If he posted on this BBS the kinds of things he sent to me, he would certainly be banded.
5) Huzurdaddi got is mega attack army spanked by me and quit.

I have only played a few MP games and a majority of the players I have played against have kept deals, given notice, played honorably, and taken their lumps, as I have. To his credit, with the exception of the foul language, continual whining, and single-minded fury, Huzurdaddi played the game well enough for me to learn a bunch. But not enough for me to be sad to see you quit...

[deccan]

Peter Ebbesen said:
Now, I've been watching this game with interest to see if anything truly weird would evolve as a result of the rather interesting starting situation [which could lead me to update the scenario, so please provide feedback on that, if you would be so kind], but, alas, one other question really raises its ugly head after reading the Last few pages.

I definitely didn't plan for this map properly and so got rather huge stockfiles of gems after a while. So far the main thing I've seen is that everyone is summoning lots and lots of summonables (have to use up those gems somehow!) I've seen Bane Lords galore, Vine Ogres, lots and lots of banes, Ether Warriors (you don't see those often), firbolgs etc. and all rather well equipped too.

Peter Ebbesen said:
As my knowledge of Dominions 2 MP is limited to smaller scale games with friends, I would like to know whether the level of personal attacks, *****ing (of the "I really mean it, scumbag" rather than the "please meet my propaganda department" variety), low-level vitriol, and immature behaviour shown by some players is typical of larger Dominions 2 MP games? Is quitting because you are losing typical or an aberration?

I think that highly dependent on individuals. This is the first time I've seen this kind of personal vitriol in a game (shame on Huzz) and it's very bad.

More often I've seen people trade insults / threats / misinformation etc. through an explicitly role-played character (read Pasha's hilarious newscasts for example). As Thufir and others have pointed out, doing the same on a personal level is highly undesirable.

As for quitting while you're losing, you do see that sometimes. But strangely, I find that newbies do this less, maybe because they're in it just for the fun of the game and to learn., and so are less concerned with being a "contender" to win the game. It seems to me that veterans (and Huzz is definitely a vet) seem more concerned about winning and being competitive.

For what it's worth, I'd like to point out that Huzz has definitely spread his share of misinformation in this game. My attack on him actually Lasted only about 2 turns, but that hasn't stopped him from including me in his list of nations out to get him for everyone else to see. And he has on one occasion send me an in-game message complaining that he has almost no forces left when I first attacked him, when my scouts reported a significant force of 500+ undead quite near me (though maybe most of it was poor quality stuff).

I don't think that misinformation / lies is a bad thing in of itself. It should be properly a part of any strategy game after all. I expect it of others, and I expect others to expect it of me. But it should be clear that such things should be game-related only and should not be personal.

[Peter Ebbesen]

deccan said:
I definitely didn't plan for this map properly and so got rather huge stockfiles of gems after a while. So far the main thing I've seen is that everyone is summoning lots and lots of summonables (have to use up those gems somehow!) I've seen Bane Lords galore, Vine Ogres, lots and lots of banes, Ether Warriors (you don't see those often), firbolgs etc. and all rather well equipped too.

I have to admit that I was especially interested in seing how Ermor turned out, as they have one of the best sets of sites allocated to them, but are surrounded by some really tough nuts to crack. Ermor starts with a construction 20, a conjuration 20, and a Thaumaturgy 40 site, as well as a free-bane site, the Wraith Lord Beyond Reproach, and a starting gem income of 29 death gems per turn on normal settings as either undead variant. Ah, well, being undead leaves no rest for the wicked: All your neighbours want to kill you before your dominion reaches critical mass, and with good cause. Might be a good setup to play living Ermor on, though.

[deccan]

Peter Ebbesen said:
I have to admit that I was especially interested in seing how Ermor turned out, as they have one of the best sets of sites allocated to them, but are surrounded by some really tough nuts to crack.

Actually Ermor is far from being a lost cause IMHO. They still have the biggest army and gem income, are tied for most provinces, have respectable research and income.

And it's not quite true that everyone is ganging up on Ermor. Ulm is almost dead being killed by Ermor I think. Marignon is also fighting Tien Chi and Pangaea at the same time etc. And I haven't been fighting Ermor for a long while now and I'm not strategically well positioned to fight him anyway.

It's a shame that Huz decided to go AI without at least trying to find a sub to play his position. Having Ermor controlled by an AI would make the game a lot less fun IMHO.