Gamey tactics discussion thread

Rasorow · #1 October 22nd, 2004, 02:37 PM

Poster: Gandalf Parker
Subject: Re: Gamey tactics discussion thread

Its not like thats not a "real" tactic. A friend moves ships in past your mines then suddenly declares war? Whats the clue? how many ships? the size? True for realism it probably should only allow one small bombed "terrorist" ship.

Actually it is a real tatic. Japan moved their entire fleet within airstrike distance of Pearl Harbor without detection. While Japan did not intend to attack without a declaration of war, they did make sure thier fleets and armies were in a position to strike as soon as war was declared.

You as the other nation seeing all these warships approach your planet/sector/territory should be screaming diplomaticly for them to remove their ships. If they do not then prior to them hitting the minefield you should cancel your treaty. Of course, some empires wont be strong enough and have to swallow the loss of the planet, but it is a real tactic. There are a number of times in history that a battle was fought and won or lost due to the ability to pre-position troops under the cloak of friendly relations.

Rasorow

Fyron · #2 October 22nd, 2004, 02:41 PM

Except for the fact that mines don't ignore friends that turn enemies in a surprise attack in reality...

Phoenix-D · #3 October 22nd, 2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Imperator Fyron said:
Except for the fact that mines don't ignore friends that turn enemies in a surprise attack in reality...

And in reality they don't ignore anyone. A mine doesn't give a damn if you're a friend or an enemy- if you trigger it it WILL explode.

A better analogy would be your allies knowing the clear path through the mines- you having given them the knowlage so they could bring their ships through safely. When they betray you you haven't had time or reason to change the paths, and so they sail right through.

Fyron · #4 October 22nd, 2004, 04:15 PM

I certainly wouldn't give a trade partner intimate knowledge of all of my mine fields... Someone with whom I hold a partnership, maybe.

spoon · #5 October 22nd, 2004, 04:35 PM

Then how do their ships avoid your mines at all?

Fyron · #6 October 22nd, 2004, 04:47 PM

They meet at trading stations outside the mine field. Their cargos are sold/unloaded there and they get money or have whatever they were trading for transfered to them, end of story. Or perhaps their trade vessels are escorted through the fields, and the mines change positions every so often, based on secret calculations which vary over time so as to eliminate the possibility of mapping the sequences. Warships certainly wouldn't be allowed near the planets... And if the local defense forces detect a massive fleet heading towards the planet, all civilian ships would be denied access and the mine fields would be remapped. There are many possibilities. Just because we sign a trade treaty doesn't mean I have to give your ships free reign to go wherever they want to... Yes, technically the game allows this silliness, but it should not. SE5 is going to have the ability to customize every treaty you sign, so we can trade and not give free access...

spoon · #7 October 22nd, 2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Imperator Fyron said:
Just because we sign a trade treaty doesn't mean I have to give your ships free reign to go wherever they want to... Yes, technically the game allows this silliness, but it should not.

Well, there's the rub. That is just your opinion. You are making up a story on how you think mines should work, and are then applying it to the game. Since the two don't match up, you blame the game for being wrong and say that people who don't interpret mines the way you do are exploiting the game.

Instead, you should look at how mines work in the game, and, if you are in need of justifications for role-play or whatever, come up with your story based on that.

I like how mines work in relationship with Trade Treaties. I think it makes the game-world a more dangerous place, and makes the threats of a backstab more dramatic and exciting.

Parasite · #8 October 25th, 2004, 07:24 PM

I think of surrendering to allies like what Poland did. All the troops they could get out and all the Navy ships they had went to England. At least England from then on wrote their orders and paid their maintanace. Germany then got to keep all they had taken and whatever else they could keep or take later. France is kind of the same way. Even though they surrendered to Germany, some of their colonies at least somewhat supported the allies.

Of course this is not a exact match to what happens, but I use it as a possible approximation.

Fyron · #9 October 25th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Except that Germany still got all of Poland's land and resources... that is not what happens in SE4. Very, very far from it. You can do what you describe by gifting your ships to an ally.

Rasorow · #10 October 26th, 2004, 09:32 AM

ok, I will admit some valid points on the immediate surrender. What if surrender "gifted" ships and units on the ships, while planets went to nuetrals (units planetside were destroyed - the melting of the army before the aggressors). What military planets could form before being conquered would represent the resistance to the invader. The more time it takes the invader to get there the more resistance they would have. Additionally this would allow other empires to "fund" the resistance with gifts of ships and units.

Rasorow