OT - US Presidential Candiates Arrested!

[Starhawk]

[quote]
eddieballgame said:

Starhawk said:
"No....though for some of them I'll say sorry.....I'm tired so I'm a litle testy...sorry......cept for my remarks toward Ed those stand.

Meaning? --- I will always take great offense to anyone who speaks ill of this imperfect yet GREAT & GIVING country of mine. I am moved by your passion.

Will again read the whole thing before you post because you sound like you didn't read jack after that line considering the reason I said I dislike Ed is because he is one of those violent we need a revolution nuts not even someone who wants to change things FOR THE BETTER please do learn to pay close attention to every post following that one again......especially because that was waaaaaay back and apparently that's your stop point as far as reading went.

Oh and I'm sorry I'm a little testy because I'm tired means I was tired so I was stressed so I was sorry there is no "reading between the lines" possible anywhere in there.


"For all, but specifically Starhawk:

If you haven't already, pick up a copy of "The Ugly American" by William J. Lederer and Eugene Burdick at your local library. It focuses on the arrogance that was prevalent in the 1950's and 1960's era policies in southeast Asia, and how it helped the Soviets gain an even larger foothold in the area because of the unbelievable ignorance and arrogance of American foreign policy. In its time, it turned around American policy, and probably helped the US win the Cold War. Today, you can make very good parallels with the American foreign policy worldwide under the Bush Administration, and see how Islamic terrorist Jihad organizations are utilizing the same mistakes to take advantage of our position, and possibly bring us down through guerilla warfare (not to mention through pissing off the rest of the world).

If you have read the book, I suggest reading through it again to see the parallels. In my personal opinion, the countries of the Middle East were screwed up by the territory borders drawn up after the World Wars by Britain, France, the US, and the Allies, and are not yet ready for a democratic style of government (for the nitpickers, republican style of government, there is no true democracy on Earth at the moment AFAIK). But if we are going to install such a style of government, we do it through the work of aid workers, who facilitate the creation of businesses in the area and instill the social values of elections, fair judicial systems, and human rights, etc. The way is not through a military invasion followed by the creation of what is essentially a puppet government and an election process that will inevitably degenerate into complete failure. A democratic system will not work unless the citizens of the area want to make it work, and we're not making that happen right now. "



Again you obviously havn't read jack squat else of what I posted so I won't even bother to reply to that beyond this line.

[Fyron]

...I dislike Ed is because he is one of those violent we need a revolution nuts not even someone who wants to change things FOR THE BETTER...

You do realize that the entire goal of a revolution is to change things for the better, right? That is exactly what revolution means, to revolt against an oppressive, harmful government and establish a new, better form... With the current corporate-controlled federal US political system, getting anyone into power other than the Demo-Republicrat flavor of the week is virtually impossible. Alternative view points are silenced, as demonstrated by the events leading up the the arrest of Mr. Badnarik and Mr. Nader. Most (US) people aren't even aware that there are other (US) parties than the 2 big evils, and may have just barely heard of Mr. Nader as some ultra-liberal nutcase (which he is, but that is beside the point). Campaign finance reforms, such as eliminating private donations to election campaigns entirely, instead relying on equal funding for all semi-serious candidates, would go a long way to alleviating this problem. However, those in power benefit directly from the f-ed up system currently in place, so will not be very keen to change it on their own. A constitutional amendment would get the will of the people involved, rather than the will of the entrenched elite. However, it has to start with those entrenched elite approving it to be voted on by the people in the first place... The Demo-Republicrats are not going to change the system that benefits them so well. Hence comments about a revolution... While this is not necessarily a very practical solution, it is not just some nutcase wanting to cause chaos and mayhem, as you seem to think it is.

[Starhawk]

Imperator Fyron said:

You do realize that the entire goal of a revolution is to change things for the better, right? That is exactly what revolution means, to revolt against an oppressive, harmful government and establish a new, better form... With the current corporate-controlled federal US political system, getting anyone into power other than the Demo-Republicrat flavor of the week is virtually impossible. Alternative view points are silenced, as demonstrated by the events leading up the the arrest of Mr. Badnarik and Mr. Nader. Most (US) people aren't even aware that there are other (US) parties than the 2 big evils, and may have just barely heard of Mr. Nader as some ultra-liberal nutcase (which he is, but that is beside the point). Campaign finance reforms, such as eliminating private donations to election campaigns entirely, instead relying on equal funding for all semi-serious candidates, would go a long way to alleviating this problem. However, those in power benefit directly from the f-ed up system currently in place, so will not be very keen to change it on their own. A constitutional amendment would get the will of the people involved, rather than the will of the entrenched elite. However, it has to start with those entrenched elite approving it to be voted on by the people in the first place... The Demo-Republicrats are not going to change the system that benefits them so well. Hence comments about a revolution... While this is not necessarily a very practical solution, it is not just some nutcase wanting to cause chaos and mayhem, as you seem to think it is.

I'm sorry but violent revolts usually just lead to massive civil bloodshed and wars, do you want to turn this country into a Somolia? Afterall who gets to rule the country when the wars are over? Would there even be a country to rule afterall you honestly think our nations enemies (those that COULD reach us) would just sit back and not take advantage of a massive civil war between MULTIPLE factions?

A revolution today would be impossible for soo many reasons that it'd take all day to list them so this revolution talk is not positive it's destructive.

As I said if you want things changed you have to do it peacefully and intelligently or not at all.


Will as I said I love my country does that mean my government.....heck no but revolution would destroy my country and so revolution is not good. Understand now?

There is a difference between going 'the government is not the best thing" for an American citizen but when foreigners spend their time knocking our government instead of cirticizing their own it just makes no sense to me.
Afterall the problems i have with my government make sense for me but do you see me out there going "UK SUCKS your all idiots"? NO because even if the citizens of the UK thought it sucked (which it doesn't I'm just using an example so don't even start in on this) it's not my place to judge their entire country based on a few old men in power.

[Fyron]

You still don't get it... Dogscoff and Ekolis were not really serious about taking up arms... It was more sarcastic lamenting over the fact that the only way to get the US out of the virtual oligarchy it is in (the corporate Demo-Republicrat group) would be to take up arms and forcibly reform it... The only ones capable of peacefully reforming the system are those that are currently in power. They have no incentive to change the system that works so well for them, and as long as the system is not changed, the same Groups will continue to be elected into power and the cycle continues... A massive public outcry is the only way the current corporate-controlled two-party system will change. Unfortunately, the US public is ignorant and often idiotic, and doesn't even realize that the system is a problem. Go figure.

Also, it is actually a terrible idea to only care about your own government and have no interest in the affairs of other nations.

[Starhawk]

Well there are a lot of folks i've heard talking (maybe not here) about revolutions and civil wars quite seriously so it erks me sorry, kind of a pet peeve.

Well I do care about other nations it's just not my place to judge whether or not that government "sucks" or not you know what I mean?

[Fyron]

Starhawk said:
Well I do care about other nations it's just not my place to judge whether or not that government "sucks" or not you know what I mean?

No, I do not know what you mean. You have every right to criticize a government, even if it is not your own. What do you think the UN is for?

[Starhawk]

I may have the right but it just doesn't feel right to me as I am only hearing my governments view on theirs and it's too one sided for me.

[Krsqk]

Imperator Fyron said:What do you think the UN is for?

To be criticized.

[AMF]

Starhawk said:
Afterall the problems i have with my government make sense for me but do you see me out there going "UK SUCKS your all idiots"? NO because even if the citizens of the UK thought it sucked (which it doesn't I'm just using an example so don't even start in on this) it's not my place to judge their entire country based on a few old men in power.

Well, you certainly seem to be implying that about Canada.

By the way, if the US is such a "giving" country, how muhc foreign aid do you think we give out? Where do you think we rank in the world (look up the per capita numbers, as well).

Starhawk, please take this in the spirit of advice, but I think there are at least a couple things you should do: wait until you know more about the topic at hand (ex: are you a scholar of revolutions? What about the American Revolution?), and read some Noam Chomsky and look at some opposing viewpoints...and travel to a foriegn country or two...then you can be an expert on what foriegners think and say and do...and what America's *real* place in the world is...

I, too, was once 17 and knew eveything and I was right about everything and I wasn't annoying either.

I learned there is a lot more to the world then what I was being fed...

[Starhawk]

How did I imply canada sucked? Heck I said it's a lovley country with nice people it's got a small military and a small population that's a fact not an insult .

And I know a lot of foreigners don't like this government because a bunch of them here said it (not an insult by calling people foreigners either as to me they are and I am to them)
And because I've met more then a few people from other nations too and I've met many that like this country, the government and the people, others that don't and some that just don't care so I know America is not always seen as the best nation the world has to offer lol.

Oh and I never made any comments about how giving we are or aren't