abysia strategies

[Graeme Dice]

Caseus said:
In multiplayer you have to contend with cheaters.

There aren't many of those left with the current Version.

You have to contend with people exploiting loopholes in the game system to do things the designers never intended.

If the various gem-producing items and supercombatants were intended to be completely useless, then the game would have made them that way.

Having never played multiplayer, I could be wrong.

You are.

[Caseus]

Graeme Dice said:

You are.

What about the part where I said:

The actual fun parts of the game -- the huge variety of spells, magic items, and units -- are lost in the intense competitiveness of multiplayer. "You can't do X, that doesn't work in multiplayer!"

Am I wrong about that? Is Dominions 2 multiplayer free of rabidly aggressive, hypercompetitive players who destroy any semblance of fun in the game?

Do you have to use only certain key strategies or you might as well not play? Your own Posts seem to indicate this is the case.

So tell me about me being wrong, please?


Caseus

[Kel]

Caseus said:
Am I wrong about that? Is Dominions 2 multiplayer free of rabidly aggressive, hypercompetitive players who destroy any semblance of fun in the game?

I suspect everyone plays the way that is, for them, fun.

If you don't like playing with people who are competitive, that is certainly a valid preference but keep in mind, *you* are asking about strategies, or at least that's how I took it. Any answer you get will be based on what is an effective strategy, rather than what your idea of fun is.

Lastly, the ironic thing is that you absolutely can use any spell/item/nation/strategy in MP. You may be more likely to lose but if you aren't a "hypercompetitive player", it shouldn't bother you so much.

- Kel

[Cainehill]

Caseus said:
What about the part where I said:

The actual fun parts of the game -- the huge variety of spells, magic items, and units -- are lost in the intense competitiveness of multiplayer. "You can't do X, that doesn't work in multiplayer!"

Am I wrong about that? Is Dominions 2 multiplayer free of rabidly aggressive, hypercompetitive players who destroy any semblance of fun in the game?

You might try a couple MP games and see if that's your experience. Or, try reading through this game's thread. (Yes, it's a tremendously long thread, but skip around the pages a bit; page 15 and 16 for example. A lot of the first and Last pages were about setting up the game, and then talking about setting up another one.) Does that sound like a bunch of rabid hypercompetitive players?

Also, unlike games like Quake or Warcraft and the like, Dominions games go long enough, are slow paced enough, that even a couple of hypercompetitive types don't ruin the fun of the game. (Unlike some of the realtime ones, where you're shot/dead/crushed inside of a few minutes of frantic clicking.) I've had a lot of fun in games where I was doing quite poorly, in part because I was trying out wacky ideas and strategies that were based on my limitted options (troops, forgings, spells researched, mages, etc).

I've played a _lot_ of MP games. My only win thus far was an allied win, and with 3 players and a mutant setup (0 magic site settings, VD research, tiny map, and you couldn't add any magic to the pretender chassis) that didn't count for much. Now I think I have ... 3 games out of about 10 in which I may have a decent chance at a win. Even if I don't win, I get a huge kick out of some of the battles, even ones I lose (or "lose", defeated but with a net gain).

SP got tedious - the AI isn't much of a challenge, I didn't have to work very hard (ie, didn't have to learn and expand my tactics / strategies), and it doesn't mean anything - I could quit a game or restart as soon as it lost my attention. Going against human players, you see a much wider range of strategies and forces that you have to contend with, since the AI tends to do pretty much the same sorts of things.

Do you have to use only certain key strategies or you might as well not play? Your own Posts seem to indicate this is the case.

Nope, there aren't certain key strategies you have to use. There are certain strategies you have to learn to counter though - what to do about SCs, what to do about wrathers, how to try and deal with armies of almost invulnerable troops (such as those produced by Enliven Statues). And there are certain things you have to keep in mind - if you don't work on your research, or don't use the results of your research, you will lose. Even that can be modified, by playing on smaller maps, with research more difficult and, more importantly, fewer magic sites.

*shrug* If you're having enough fun with SP, great. But to many of us, the MP games are a lot more interesting and unpredictable, and therefor more entertaining and fun for us.

[Cohen]

Well explain me so how to do well with Abysya.

[Graeme Dice]

Cohen said:
Well explain me so how to do well with Abysya.

Fire-9 moloch. Order 3, Prod 3, heat 3, misfortune 3, magic 2, dominion 7, castle. Alchemize your fire gems, recruit an Anathemant Dragon and as many lava warriors as you can afford. Send them out to a weak province on the next turn. Set the dragon and the Moloch to cast flare. Research evocation 1 for fire darts. Continue to purchase lava warriors and use them to conquer territory and hopefully kill a neighbour off in the very early game.

Then either research construction to 6 or blood to 6. Summon the archedvils. Buy warlocks until you get one with water 1. Have him build a water bracelet and trade for a robe of the sea. Put them on the water warlock and summon icedevils if they are still around. Buy warlocks until you get one with air 1 to make flying boots for the icedevils if you have them. Use your gems to equip your summoned commanders. Trade for a dwarven hammer, then build soul contracts. Put decent equipment on your devil commanders from horde from hell.

Try and kill Pangaea's pretender early so that you can force him to be your ally and supply you with fever fetishes in exchange for fire gems and lightless lanterns. Use your fire gem income to both power your economy and kill opposing armies with artillery spells.

Research evocations and use your Moloch as a combination battlefield caster/supercombatant.

There's all kinds of things to do with Abysia, and they are great for brute force power strategies. Plus, they are nearly immune to overland artillery magic. Flames from the sky does them no damage, and murdering winter kills virtually nobody.

[Cohen]

If you buy lava warriors you can't buy researchers. You're outgunned in research. And you can't blood hunt well too. How can you only hope to grab the big Devils if you have in the same game any other blood nation?

Lava warriors will get arrowed very easily by any xbow province. They've no shield.

You assume Pangea is in ... and not always is, and often is of a theme that doesn't allow to forge fever fetishes, and it's not easy to kill another pretender.

They lack of mobility even if they're immune from overland artillery, any cloud trapezing mage capable of wrathful skies will kill all your army with ease.

[anatoli11]

Caseus you should try multi-player!!

I have found that the AI becomes really predictable in SP after quite a few games. In MP your human opponents really stretch your knowlege of the game - Even if you are not doing well, its worth while to stay in the game to try out a few things or learn a few new tricks.

[Graeme Dice]

Cohen said:
If you buy lava warriors you can't buy researchers.

Sure you can. You can buy 1 or two lava warriors a turn, and a researcher every turn.

You're outgunned in research. And you can't blood hunt well too. How can you only hope to grab the big Devils if you have in the same game any other blood nation?

This has been explained to you many times Cohen. You use your warlock apprentices as researchers until you have the basic research done. You then switch them to blood hunters to build your armies very quickly.

Lava warriors will get arrowed very easily by any xbow province. They've no shield.

That's why you have the Anathemant Dragon and Moloch along for fire support.

You assume Pangea is in

No, I'm simply pointing out the benefits of diplomacy. It makes you much stronger than any single pretender design ever could.

They lack of mobility even if they're immune from overland artillery, any cloud trapezing mage capable of wrathful skies will kill all your army with ease.

They won't be able to kill your army that easily, because a cloud trapezing mage will go down very quickly to fire-9 lava warriors. False horrors won't do anything against sacred troops with magical weapons, enormous attack values, and suberb morale. You've also almost certainly got rings of tamed lightning on your SCs, so wrathful skies won't bother them at all.

[deccan]

Cainehill said:
Or, try reading through this game's thread. (Yes, it's a tremendously long thread, but skip around the pages a bit; page 15 and 16 for example. A lot of the first and Last pages were about setting up the game, and then talking about setting up another one.) Does that sound like a bunch of rabid hypercompetitive players?

Hey, you pointed to our game!

I am too a rabid hypercompetitive player. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I even froth at the mouth like Pasha.