Priest Spells: Prayers & Rites

[RedRover]

I thought about just adding this to the Misc Magic Ideas thread, but it's different enough to deserve its own thread. I was going to polish it a little more, but it's been distracting me from my current dom2 project, so I'm sending it now to clear it off my desk.

Prayers currently exist (they are holy spells, as per Sunray's master spell list). Rites would be new--these are holy ritual spells.

HOLY PRAYERS

The following spell ideas are given in ascending level order.

Fear of God: Prayer. Holy/Unholy (Combat Retaliation). Paths: H2. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Any creature striking the priest receives a morale penalty and takes an immediate morale check. The penalty does not stack with itself, but Lasts for the battle or until the caster is killed.

[Design Notes: dmg=morale check, area=1, prec=100, morale penalty is (priest level-1).]

Dispel Evil: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Counters one unholy spell that Lasts for the battle.

[Design Notes: rng=-, area=Battlefield, prec=-, removes 1 unholy spell effect.]

Dispel Good: Prayer. Unholy (Combat Support). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Counters one holy spell that Lasts for the battle.

[Design Notes: rng=-, area=Battlefield, prec=-, removes 1 holy spell effect.]

Neutralize Poison: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Neutralizes poisoning of one friendly unit. Does not prevent subsequent poisoning.

[Design Notes: rng=10, area=One person, prec=5, stops continuing poison damage. AI notes: priority highest current hit points; don’t target creatures with less than 5 current hp.]

Smite Fear: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
The priest targets an enemy commander with a fear modifier and reduces it.

[Design Notes: This spell temporarily reduces a fear modifier of an enemy commander. rng=15, area=one person, prec=100, fear reduction= (priest level squared/3 )–2. Thus, a 3rd-level priest cancels a +1 bonus, 4th level +3, 5th level +6.]

Unholy Smite: Prayer. Unholy (Ranged Attack). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
An enemy priest who fails to resist this spell is stunned for 1 turn per caster level.

[Design Notes: Effective only against enemy priests. rng=35+, area=one person, prec=100, magic resistance negates. This is intended to make undead hordes a little more fearsome.]

Channel Fear: Prayer. Unholy (Combat Support). Paths: H4. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Routing units add to the effectiveness of the caster’s unholy bolts.

[Design Notes: rng=0, area=Caster, prec=100, dmg=+1 per (routing units/5).]

Slay Fear: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H4. Cost: 0- fatigue.
The priest targets an enemy troop type with a fear modifier and reduces it.

[Design Notes: Not sure how codable this is…rng=100, area=Battlefield, prec=100, fear reduction= (priest level squared/3 )–2]

Holy Terror: Prayer. Unholy (Combat Attack). Paths: H5. Cost: 0- fatigue.
All unrouted enemy squads on the battlefield take a morale check at –1.

[Design Notes: rng=100, area=Battlefield, prec=-, morale -1.]

Mass Neutralize Poison: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H5. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Neutralizes poisoning of all friendly units in area. Does not prevent subsequent poisoning.

[Design Notes: rng=15, area=4+, prec=3, stops continuing poison damage. AI notes: priority highest current hit points; don’t target creatures with less than 5 current hp.]

HOLY/UNHOLY RITES (ritual prayers)

These are ritual holy prayers. Unlike ritual spells, they can be cast anywhere, unless noted otherwise. Instead of costing gems, they cost money. Basic cost guidelines:

H1—25 gp
H2—50 gp
H3—75 gp
H4—100 gp
H5—150 gp

The following are given in ascending level order.

Holy Mass: Rite. Path: H1. Cost: 25 gold.
This rite has the effect of a Preach order, and also raises the priest’s level by +1 for the turn. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

[Design note: This rite aids in increasing dominion in a province. It can be cast as a monthly ritual.]

Rite of Calming: Rite. Path: H1. Cost: 25 gold.
This rite reduces unrest in caster’s province by 25 points. It does not reduce unrest below 0. This rite can be cast anywhere.

[Design note: This rite can be cast as a monthly ritual. It automatically ends when unrest reaches 0 or when the money runs out.]

Inspiration: Rite. Path: H2. Cost: 50 gold.
This rite raises the morale of friendly units in the caster’s province by +1 for this month. It can be cast anywhere.

[Designer’s note: This is more of a defensive rite, since a priest who casts it can’t move. There is a higher level variation, Prayers from Afar, that affects friendly units anywhere on the map.]

Cotter’s Blessing: Rite. Path: H2. Cost: 50 gold.
This rite creates 10 points of resources in the caster’s province this month. If not used, they are lost. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

[Design note: This rite can be cast as a monthly ritual. It automatically ends if money runs out.]

Holy Feast: Rite. Path: H3, Cost: 75 gold.
This spell negates the starvation penalty in battle for this month. It does not prevent or cure disease due to starvation, nor does it affect the supply status of the army beyond negating the battle penalty.

[Design note: The Crusaders in the CrusaderMod have this as a national spell. The rite is pegged at H3 because that’s the holy level of the casters of this effect in that mod.]

Consecration: Rite. Path: H3 or prophet. Cost: variable.
This rite must be performed at a temple. It grants the target commander one level of holiness. The first level of holiness must be conferred by a priest H3 or by the prophet (much the same way as Gift of Reason bestows commander status). The rite cost varies according to the level conferred: 1st–200 gold, 2nd –50 gold, 3rd–100 gold, 4th–250 gold, 5th–500 gold. The rite does not function on Pretenders. The rite costs much more if the caster is not of greater holy level than the receiver.

[Design note: This is holy empowerment, granting levels of holy skill. If the caster is not of greater level than the receiver, then the cost of the rite is doubled. This spell has a pop-up message if you try to do it with insufficient money.]

Prayers from Afar: Rite. Path: H4. Cost: 100 gold.
This rite raises the morale of friendly units in the target province by +1 for this month. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

[Design note: This rite is not cumulative with itself nor with Inspiration.]

Blessed Industry: Rite. Path: H4. Cost: 100 gold
This rite creates 25 resource points in the caster’s province. Resources not used in the month of creation are lost. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

[Design note: This rite can be cast as a monthly ritual. It automatically ends if the money runs out.]

Dome of Holy Protection: Rite. Path: H5. Cost: 150 gold.
The dome has a 30% chance to stop an incoming spell. The dome might shatter when it stops a spell. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

[Design note: The chance of the dome shattering is 1% per spell level squared.]

Another line I'd like to see discussed in this thread are holy/magic path combination spells, though I don't have anything to add about them at present.

[Tuna]

RedRover said:
I thought about just adding this to the Misc Magic Ideas thread, but it's different enough to deserve its own thread. I was going to polish it a little more, but it's been distracting me from my current dom2 project, so I'm sending it now to clear it off my desk.

Some ideas are good, but some others are immensely powerful.

Neutralize Poison: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H3. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Neutralizes poisoning of one friendly unit. Does not prevent subsequent poisoning.

Too powerful. Add magic resistance negates easily and it's ok.

Mass Neutralize Poison: Prayer. Holy (Combat Support). Paths: H5. Cost: 0- fatigue.
Neutralizes poisoning of all friendly units in area. Does not prevent subsequent poisoning.

uh... you really want to eliminate poison from the game, dont you? Right now poison is one of the good counters to big and nasty things like horrors. This would literally eliminate poison from game. Add magic resistance negates easily and 50 fatigue and it's ok.

HOLY/UNHOLY RITES (ritual prayers)

Each and every one of these, perhaps not including the morale +1 bonus, is underpriced. I get a dome for 150 gold? Hell yeah! multiply all costs by 5...10 and they are ok, with few exceptions.

Rite of Calming: Rite. Path: H1. Cost: 25 gold.
This rite reduces unrest in caster’s province by 25 points. It does not reduce unrest below 0. This rite can be cast anywhere.

Incredibly utterly overpoweful. Multiplying the cost by 10 is not enough. Non-popkilling unrest reduction that can be massed? Imagine the applications...

Cotter’s Blessing: Rite. Path: H2. Cost: 50 gold.
This rite creates 10 points of resources in the caster’s province this month. If not used, they are lost. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

I dont like it. These kind of things can be used for massproduction of capital-only superholy troops that cost plenty of resources. Overpowered.

Consecration: Rite. Path: H3 or prophet. Cost: variable.
This rite must be performed at a temple. It grants the target commander one level of holiness. The first level of holiness must be conferred by a priest H3 or by the prophet (much the same way as Gift of Reason bestows commander status). The rite cost varies according to the level conferred: 1st–200 gold, 2nd –50 gold, 3rd–100 gold, 4th–250 gold, 5th–500 gold. The rite does not function on Pretenders. The rite costs much more if the caster is not of greater holy level than the receiver.

Eh? had to read it twice to realize you are really suggesting that. There's a reason not all nations have all kind of priests. I hope nothing like this ever gets in, at least not this underpriced. Multiplying all prices by 5...10 or so would be ok, perhaps.

Blessed Industry: Rite. Path: H4. Cost: 100 gold
This rite creates 25 resource points in the caster’s province. Resources not used in the month of creation are lost. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

Imagine marignon doing this at his capital.

Dome of Holy Protection: Rite. Path: H5. Cost: 150 gold.
The dome has a 30% chance to stop an incoming spell. The dome might shatter when it stops a spell. This rite can be performed only at a temple.

cost x 5...10. just look at what domes cost at gems...

[Cohen]

I'd agree with the fact Holy/Unholy should need a magic boost in spell listing.

[Rasorow]

I would love to see some kind of Holy/Unholy powers and progression. I hate that I have to advance/empower a priest as a magic user to gain power and that my priests cannot advance in holy/unholiness. A priest's power flows from their faith in their God, not magic. As their faith is tested it gets stronger.. unrelated to their magical ability if any.

I do not think that the resource additions are over-powered especially if you can only recruit lvl 1-3 holiness units. Think about the Riches from Beneath the Earth (If I remember the name correctly) spell and the resources it perpetually creates in all provinces. Both of these would create extra resources for 1 turn. If you monthly cast them you are losing a preacher/caster/leader of mid (H2) to high lvl (H5) which at least I never have enough high-levels. Your calculations on cost also need to keep in mind the cost creating the char to cast it. Massed Industry actually requires 950 gold (assuming H2 recruit) to cast. 850 gold to get the H5 char then 100 gold to cast and is only effective in one province 1 turn. Again Riches From Beneath the Earth has about the same additional resources, is perpetual - once cast always in effect (unless dispelled), affects all provinces, and no maintenance (where the prayers would have a cost each month cast).

Some tweaking does need to be done and some balancing, but I dont think his suggestions are unreasonable when considered with what currently exists in the game.

Rasorow

[Taqwus]

Dislike.

- Magic must be researched. Holy spells are available from the beginning. This adds a considerable cost to the use of magic, as you need to pay to recruit the mages and then to maintain them, plus it stops you from recruiting another commander that turn in that province.

- Mages are generally more expensive than your basic H2 priest. Mages that can cast the interesting globals certainly are, because they frequently require 5+ levels of power.

- The more useful globals also cost one heck of a lot more than their list cost because others will dispell them.

- ANY nation can get an H3 priest from the start by assigning a prophet, most can get at least H4 through a prophet, and some can get H4 recruitable and H5 through prophet. Two get native-H5 heroes!

- What does holiness have to do with poison? Or production, for that matter, unless the god cares about Productivity? You want resources from religion, spend the 40/80/120 points.

I don't think you really want to see Ulm/Iron Faith or Abysia (in particular, with the gold income from alchemy) using priests to crank out lots of high-resource heavy infantry,do you?

[Endoperez]

Rites using gold as the pay might be usable, though. Maybe not these ones, but something along these lines would add even more interest for priests. If these were to be added they should be used to spice up some spesific nations/themes and maybe come with spesific scale/magic levels with high Dominion, not given freely to everyone.

I don't think Holy 2 priests should be able to do much of anything. Compare them to level 1 mages. Should Sage with random in Earth be able to duplicate Riches from Beneath locally, for ~5 gems?

About holy/arcane magic combinations, I would like to see Tien Chi's Celestial Summon needing eg. FHHH or WHHH, so that only Celestial Masters could summon them. And *every* one of them would be able to do this, too! Unfortunately, that can't be modded. I don't think the game would allow that at all, though.

And remember that gold is almost always more common than gems, and that using gold instead of gems could unbalance the game quite severely unless lots of work and testing was put into it.

I do like quite amny of your ideas, though. It would be interesting to see them in the game.

[Ironhawk]

Would be nice to see a little more diversity in priest spells/rites and you've got some great concepts. On the other hand, you do have some really massively overpowered spells. If you toss them and concentrated on the good stuff tho this would be a really sweet mod.

Most of the combat spells which handle fear are good with the exception of Holy Terror, which I think you meant as a Battlefield Enchantment, right? Even so, with no gem cost and 0 fatigue its overpowered. Also you should drop all the Poison stuff. In Dominions 2, poison managment and healing is all derived from Nature magic, not Holy (with the single exception of Arco priestesses). You'd be tampering with an already balanced system there.

Holy Mass seems like a fun rite - thematic too (tho for the record "Mass" is a catholic term you might want something more general like "Ceremony" or something to stick with dom2 pagan spirit?). But you dont want to impinge on the blood sacrifice advantage of blood nations. Maybe bump it up a bit?

Inspiration, Prayers from Afar, and Holy Feast all seem like good priest rituals. They have a solid effect but arent really out of balance.

Rite of Calming on the other hand is MASSIVELY overpowered. Putting your taxes through the roof and/or blood hunting would be no brainers with this one. Dome of Holy Protection is also overpowered. First its FAR too cheap and secondly, some nations would be able to cast it from turn 2! Both of these rituals should be tossed.

Consecration is an interesting idea but the idea of allowing path boosts via gold, the most accessible resource in the game, seems fraught with problems. You might consider adding some +Holy items that have reasonable gem costs which would be a safer route. Perhaps you could require some amount of gems of every kind? (tho I dont know if that would require a rainbow mage to forge?)

[Tuna]

About the production boost spells vs riches from beneath:
1. Prod boost only takes gold, which is much more common than gems.
2. Riches from beneath gives resources everywhere. But you dont want them everywhere. You want them all in your capital...
3. The prod boosts are available from turn 1.

[Rasorow]

Why do you only want resources in the Capital? I recruit armies everywhere. Heavy Calvary from here, archers from there, amphibians from over there, heavy infantry from another place, and other items like jade sorceresses and so forth. I generally have 2-3 armies of capital generated and a varying number of province generated armies. I find that province generated armies re-enforce quicker (closer to the front), make great leading invasion armies, great seige re-enforcements, great defensive armies, freeing my elite capital forces to deal with the counter attack to re-gain territory, siezing the main objective (already weakened by a province army), providing a hard nose to blunt the initial attack if needed. I generally have much more gold then resources and I dont have 10 turns that it takes to put a decent army together from one place when I can put together 3 armies by recuiting in 10 different places.

To me Riches from Beneath is a much preferred item then a ritual that will only benefit one province. Riches from Beneath just seems to me so much more powerful (that one spell turned a losing game into a devesating win for me the first time I used it) then the industry ceremony that I really dont understand why there is so much resistance to the industry ceremony idea. Unless of course you were to say Riches from Beneath was out of balance and over powered....

As far as money vs Gems for the ritual... simply increase the cost appropriately. Also realize that the pool of gold you are spending decreases the number of units you can buy to use those resources (not to mention building), so its self-limiting (because the resources dont linger - they are only there for that 1 turn). Where (although alchemy exists) there is no direct competition between the gems for magic rituals.

Rasorow

PS I really like the idea of seperating Priest powers from magic... Can you tell? ;-)

[Chazar]

Apart from balance, the proposed powers remind me of D&D like priests, which seems misplaced to me in Dom2. Where do the powers of a priests come from? In the D&D-view, those powers are directly derived from a priest's god who actually casts the spell in place for his priest. Now in Dom2 our wanna-be God travels the lands and is already busy casting spells for gems himself, and he can only use the resources his followers have gathered for him (gems, gold, resources).

So I would like some more moderate priestly powers, but they should be linked to the God as is the bless effect: If the God may cast Fires from Afar, then let his L3-priests cast some fire darts...
On the other hand, how does a god increase resources available to his followers? Is there a spell he can cast? Well, he can hand out some commandments, making hard-working a religious goal...but that is already there in form of the productivity scale!