Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

st.patrik · #1 November 15th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Zen, it seems to me like the change to Hama Dryads makes them very overpowered - True they are limited in how far they can range from home, but 20 of those gals guarding your fortress will make damn sure no-one comes close to taking it. I think a free 'enslave mind' is way too powerful.

apologies if anyone already mentioned this - I didn't read all 18 pages, but I did do a search, and didn't find anything on it.

quantum_mechani · #2 November 15th, 2004, 11:48 PM

Quote:

st.patrik said:
Zen, it seems to me like the change to Hama Dryads makes them very overpowered - True they are limited in how far they can range from home, but 20 of those gals guarding your fortress will make damn sure no-one comes close to taking it. I think a free 'enslave mind' is way too powerful.

apologies if anyone already mentioned this - I didn't read all 18 pages, but I did do a search, and didn't find anything on it.

No, even now they are not near overpowered, considering you need a lab in each province you summon them, which usually means a fort anyway, which means they become mostly a Last ditch defense...

This would be negated if you could move them around with Fairy Trod, Astral Travel, ect., but every turn away from their home province they take severe damage.

Edi · #3 November 16th, 2004, 03:41 AM

The Enslave Mind attack has 5 shots, and the hama dryad is almost worse than useless without it for the reasons QM listed. The proper solution is to bring enough chaff to render them irrelevant.

It's not an insurmountable problem.

Edi

Zen · #4 November 17th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Mr. Patrick! I haven't heard much feedback about the Spellmod, however, I have heard that people thought this was perhaps too powerful. Though QM and Edi are quick to point out they don't seem so, I tend to agree. I would have rather not had them "Enslave Mind" but perhaps Charm, or confuse or something similiar but the effect is really what I'm looking for.

For the Hama to be strong enough in it's singular role that it is extremely useful for what it can do. This comes from the fact that the unit will die within 2 turns of being outside their home province. They *might* be a little too cost efficent, but I haven't yet run into a situation with too many hama dryads that I haven't been able to deal with them before.

Something of note: When you make the Hama's have a 0/2 movement you actually see the AI use them, apparently when they have movement the AI will move them around and unknowingly kill them.

Edi · #5 November 17th, 2004, 06:21 PM

As a note, I think the charm spell also has the Enslave Mind attack effect, just that the spell sound effect is different because it is specified in a different place maybe? The Enslave Mind attack (that units may have) uses the astral spell default sound, and the nature spell charm uses the nature spell default sound, but it still has the same attack effect (it must, because all damaging spells with special effects must have something for the effect) because there are no others. Unless the spells have a Category of those all on their own, but I doubt it.

Edi

Zen · #6 November 17th, 2004, 06:39 PM

It's at least slightly different. Since when you Charm a commander they keep their Commander status while if you Enslave Mind a Commander they are regulated to a Unit regardless of their previous status.

Hellbind Heart falls into this same Category.

It doesn't in actuality matter very much, I would love to be able to change the Enslave's Penetration bonus/penalty but that is doable with the current Mod tools. Same with Mind BLast.

So Edi, any feedback from you, O' Editor?

Edi · #7 November 17th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Haven't had time to actually try the spell mod out, I'm just assessing the differences based on what I know of the abilities, costs and effects that the modifications affect and drawing educated guesses.

I've been much too busy producing other documentation, like the completely revised, rechecked, expanded and more accurate magic site list that will be made available for public consumption tomorrow (as will an updated unit DB, though the modifications to that are pretty minor in comparison). And doing non-Dom2 related things. But I'm actually starting a couple of SP games to try out the spell mod. I should also update the Faerun map files (assign VPs to some places, correct at least one border error that slipped through and recheck a couple of other things), but that will take a couple of days.

Edi

deccan · #8 November 17th, 2004, 07:04 PM

Does Enslave Mind have a better inherent MR penetration than Charm? How about Hellbind Heart?

Gandalf Parker · #9 November 17th, 2004, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Zen said:
It's at least slightly different. Since when you Charm a commander they keep their Commander status while if you Enslave Mind a Commander they are regulated to a Unit regardless of their previous status.

Hellbind Heart falls into this same Category.

It doesn't in actuality matter very much, I would love to be able to change the Enslave's Penetration bonus/penalty but that is doable with the current Mod tools. Same with Mind BLast.

So Edi, any feedback from you, O' Editor?

Im not sure if I read that right. Unless something changed then hellbind has no effect other than them switching sides. Ive gotten my best commanders, mages, equipment, and even multiple prophets with hellbind.

I also love the "double damage" thing. Not only have I gained powerful commanders with experience and equipment, but he has lost the same. His advancing army now has many units with no leader which cannot advance and will rout if even a scout attacks.