OT:Why Aliens dont come here - Page 6

Fyron · #51 December 8th, 2004, 03:27 AM

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Ahem a problem I spotted right off is that the "school children" of 1930s germany couldn't have grown up to be the SS of WWII as most would have been younger then 18.

That is not a problem in any way. Many people that were school children of the 1930s were of proper age to become members of the SS during the war. That is an entire decade there... 17 year olds in school are certainly "school children."

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As to Hitler and religion look here:
(link removed because UBB makes crappy scripts that completely butchered it)
as well as some other interesting stuff.

That site is too filled with political hogwash and personal attack to be of much academic merit...

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Your link sounds like it is desperately trying to turn about the common belief that Hitler and the Nazi's were occultist in their views to make people beleive that it was Religion's fault so I don't much take that one guy's article over so many history books and shows I've watched and read.

No, it does not attempt to make it seem like it was "Religion's fault." It merely debunks the myth that Hitler was an atheist, and that he was not Christian (Catholic to be more precise).

What do you mean by "occultists," exactly? Do you mean, mixing in a bit of Norse mythology to help instill national pride? That is not "occultist" by any means. Unless, of course, you are a Christian Fundamentalist... but that is an entirely different can of worms...

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narf poit chez BOOM said:
Direct qoute from that site.

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When confronted by the fact that Hitler's example hardly helps in their slander campaign against atheists,

I am not trying to slander atheists, I'm trying to stop people from slandering religeons. Nice 'interpretation' of the motives of >EVERY< religeos person who argues against you [/qoute]Nice way to take it out of context.

He was writing about those slandering atheism, not about you trying to stop slander against religions.

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some anti-atheists suddenly switch gears to Marxism and point out that Marxism is atheistic, in an obvious attempt to tie atheism to past and present human rights abuses in Russia and China. However, that is a logical fallacy: the fact that all Marxists are atheists does not mean that all atheists must therefore be Marxists (if you don't understand why that's a fallacy, go back to school). It's also an unnecessary slander against Marxists. [/qoute] Ok, I've read this three times and I don't have a clue what he's saying. Of course all atheists are not marxists. And I doubt everybody who says the're a marxist is an athiest, either. What's the guys point?

Think McCarthyism. Marx espoused atheism. Nations like the Soviet Union and the "Communist" China claimed to be Marxist and committed countless atrocities. Therefore, they must have commited them because they are Godless atheists. Thus, Godless atheists are evil. This is the sort of thinking he was writing against.

[qoute][qoute]While I find Marx's communist ideas to be very seriously flawed, I must note that he never would have approved of the violent regimes of Stalin or Mao. Atheism is merely the refusal to believe in a God for whom no scientific evidence exists. It does not necessarily lead to Stalinism, or decadence, or the breakdown of family values, or any of these other ridiculous charges that are routinely levied at it.

Religeon is merely a system of belief in some sort of higher power, because of personal choice and sometimes personal evidence, even if there is no demonstratable, scientific evidence. It does not necessarily lead to totoleranism, or mass-murder, or the breakdown of rationality, or any of these other ridiculous charges that are routinely levied at it.

I think you misconstrue postings about the atrocities committed in the name of religions, ordained directly by them (Christianity is one of the worst offenders, primarily Catholicism), as some sort of statement that religion is only about such things...

narf poit chez BOOM · #52 December 8th, 2004, 03:36 AM

I am a better person because of my religeon than I would be without it. No other institution, save that of my family, I have ever encountered, could have taught me morality so successfully.

brianeyci · #53 December 8th, 2004, 03:44 AM

Unfortunately I have to admit it, but watching reruns of TNG after coming home from school at 4:00 pm (yes, I rushed home to watch it) is what I attribute to some of my morality. Especially the "Prime Directive" and live and let live philosophy, although now that I'm older I see Star Trek as a totally unworkable dream fantasy and the possibility a "Prime Directive" mentality being used as justification of withholding help from needy people.

Brian

Fyron · #54 December 8th, 2004, 03:45 AM

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narf poit chez BOOM said:
I am a better person because of my religeon than I would be without it. No other institution, save that of my family, I have ever encountered, could have taught me morality so successfully.

Your family could easily have taught you morality in the absence of religion. It happens all the time. Religion is in no way required for morality.

Fyron · #55 December 8th, 2004, 03:47 AM

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brianeyci said:
Unfortunately I have to admit it, but watching reruns of TNG after coming home from school at 4:00 pm (yes, I rushed home to watch it) is what I attribute to some of my morality. Especially the "Prime Directive" and live and let live philosophy, although now that I'm older I see Star Trek as a totally unworkable dream fantasy and the possibility a "Prime Directive" mentality being used as justification of withholding help from needy people.

There were a number of episodes where it was indeed used to withhold help from needy people, just because it would interfere with their development.

narf poit chez BOOM · #56 December 8th, 2004, 03:49 AM

Nothing wrong with that. One of our LDS (The other short form, not LSD) beliefs is 'if there is anything virtious, lovely or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.' As I remember it. My memory might not be exact, but the meaning is clear.

brianeyci · #57 December 8th, 2004, 03:59 AM

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Imperator Fyron said:There were a number of episodes where it was indeed used to withhold help from needy people, just because it would interfere with their development.

Yes well Picard always gave a long-winded philosophical speech about withholding help, and me being 10-14 or so I bought into a lot of them, until I was older and realized that his philosophical justification was really a practical justification. The Feds can't help everybody around, because they need to keep control of their technology and wouldn't have the resources to help every downtrodden alien race that comes along.

Brian

Starhawk · #58 December 8th, 2004, 04:02 AM

[/quote]Your family could easily have taught you morality in the absence of religion. It happens all the time. Religion is in no way required for morality.

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Well Imperator as I said you are free to hold to your own beliefs in this country, and I suppose to understand what a Christian (I am talking about a good normal person that happens to be a christian, not including the far right or far left Groups in this term) means when they say that they are better because of their religious beleifs then they would be without them you'd have to feel it for yourself.

It truely is different to have faith then simple morality.

As a friend of mine often said
"Faith does not equal morality and morality does not equal faith, one can exist with out the other, but when they become one it is a far better thing."

It is true I can have faith in God but be immoral I can also have faith in only myself but be a very "moral" person, Religion and morality are not by default in the same boat and each can exist without the other but it's always better to have Faith in God AND be moral then just to be Moral in my opinion

Starhawk · #59 December 8th, 2004, 04:04 AM

LOL I always saw the Federation as a weak organization, I mean the Klingons and Romulans BOTH being warlike expansionistic empires should be able to easily kick the crap out of such a weak and gutless group.

narf poit chez BOOM · #60 December 8th, 2004, 04:09 AM

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Imperator Fyron said:

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narf poit chez BOOM said:
I am a better person because of my religeon than I would be without it. No other institution, save that of my family, I have ever encountered, could have taught me morality so successfully.

Your family could easily have taught you morality in the absence of religion. It happens all the time. Religion is in no way required for morality.

True, and my religeon would have had a hard time teaching me morality if my family didn't. But the two of them together taught me morality more effectively than either apart. To not leave out other influences, fiction books I read also taught me morality. I am always annoyed when someone says 'But the're just fiction. How could they be usefull?'

And I would also be annoyed if someone advocated banning atheism.