Patch 'n mod

[Edi]

The clam is changed in the Oceania mod, I'm not sure if it's changed in 2.15 itself, because the Oceania mod code has the change implemented.

[Boron]

tinkthank said:
Ì must have been really out of the action for a few months -- when was Clam of Pearls changed from 2W to 2W1N ? Was this in 2.15? I cant find these balance change notes anywhere. Is this mentioned in a thread somewhere?

(Boron: This is another reason why "clamhoarding" will not be more difficult with them, Boron. Actually, I see no real feasible way to give them a fire blessing, since they dont have any pretender with decent fire-skills.)

It is only changed in the oceania mod :
Code:

---

 #selectitem "Clam of Pearls"

#mainpath 2

#mainlevel 2

#secondarypath 6

#secondarylevel 1

#end

 

---

Hm this is unfair though .
So in a game with oceania mod they are the only nation which can hoard clams en masse .
All other nations need a jade sorceress for that with lucky random picks or really luck with random picks from their mages .

Hopefully this idea is not followed in dominions 3 .
I wanna rather see more hoarditems there especially like soul contract

[Turin]

You want to see more hoarditems?? Playing with tons of hoard items removes most of the strategy imho.

Who cares how many provinces you have when your income comes mostly from clams/fetishes.
I really like that in games with no hoarding you have to choose how to spend your limited resources and the game doesn´t turn into a giant wishfest/micromanagement nightmare.

Especially since you can get such massive discounts on forging.

Take the god is a bullet game for example. I had the forge of the ancients up for ~20 turns. Together with a hammer and a forge bonus site I can forge clams for 2 water gems. Now if there hadn´t been a limit on hoard items in that game my income would be so humongous now, that the other nations wouldn´t have the slightest chance resulting in an easy win for me.

With the hoarding limiting rule there are 4 other powerful nations left, and I have to consider carefully on what I should spend my big, but not unlimited income and I´m looking forward to a very challenging endgame.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Oh please, no additional diplomacy.
I think the diplomatic options in dominions 2, or rather the lack of such, add more to the game than any additional stuff could do.

tinkthank said:

Excuse me, am I reading this correctly? Are you implying that -- unlike dom2 -- we will be able to ally in dom3 (perhaps in a way similar to what I suggested in the Wishlist thread)? May I indeed get excited and desire to shake your hand -- or must you dash my well-deserved hopes upon the harsh rocks of your unyielding will?

[archaeolept]

lol. I think Kristoffer was just pointing out the obvious, that you can't have R'lyeh, Atlantis, and Oceania in the same game in DomII (as Oceania replaces Atlantis)

[Tuidjy]

> You want to see more hoarditems?? Playing with tons of hoard items removes
> most of the strategy imho.

Just in your not humble enough opinion. First of all, hoarding is not 100%
necessary to win. I consider myself a decent player, and I seldom
start hoarding before turn 20-30, by which time many people have gone critical.
Second, hoarding is in no way a guarantee for winning. I would put it behind
diplomacy, race selection, and anticipating the enemy, in that order. Third,
even if hoarding in general were necessary to win, there are still enough
different kinds of hoarding to make things interesting. So, yes, I would
like to see more hoardable items.

> Who cares how many provinces you have when your income comes mostly from
> clams/fetishes.

And this is necessarily bad? If you managed to get to that point with just
your capital province, you must be really good. If not, what are you
complaining about?

> I really like that in games with no hoarding you have to choose how to spend
> your limited resources and the game doesn´t turn into a giant
> wishfest/micromanagement nightmare.

What I really hate more than house rules, is unenforceable house rules.

> Especially since you can get such massive discounts on forging.

You can? Then you must have done something right. Doing something is right is
what the game is about.

[Alneyan]

Technically, you can enforce "no hoarding" from a game, as item modding should now be available. Make clams and the whole thing require 5 Nature and 5 Air, and you will be virtually rid of them (summon spells are easier to remove from the picture).

The other way is, as usual, to have a devoted host (and host only) check the game every single turn. This would, however, not exactly be feasible in this case, unless you only have a few players in the game.

[Ivan Pedroso]

Turin said:
Take the god is a bullet game for example. I had the forge of the ancients up for ~20 turns. Together with a hammer and a forge bonus site I can forge clams for 2 water gems. Now if there hadn´t been a limit on hoard items in that game my income would be so humongous now, that the other nations wouldn´t have the slightest chance resulting in an easy win for me.

With the hoarding limiting rule there are 4 other powerful nations left, and I have to consider carefully on what I should spend my big, but not unlimited income and I´m looking forward to a very challenging endgame.

I'm C'tis in that game - and I feel that because of the limits on clams/fetishes/stones/contracts we'll have an interesting endgame.

I don't think your forge would have been up that long had it not been for those limits - but I totally agree - if there are no limitations a Forge should be dispelled ASAP. And I hope that domIII will have well balanced gem producing items, they do serve a purpose as an on-board gem surply for a battle-mage. Actually they could serve to lessen micro-management if they were only used in that way, but of cause people abuse them.

Just got an idea(sorry if it has already been proposed) :
What if gem producing items were only usable by mages with a combined magic path level of 3 or above. They are the only ones that really need gems in battle, because most spells that have a gem cost have path requirements of 3 or above (so a WSS mage could use a pearl and would thus always have some on him, and if he communions or otherwise gets boosted in astral - viola - he has the gems he needs to cast the big stuff). And there are no cheap 3-path(combined) summons to use as mules (spectral mages are 10D, and so perhaps a restriction of 4+ combined paths might work better). Could this work ? You could still slap one on a commander that didn't have the required magic skill, it just wouldn't produce any gems, if you need to transport such an item. The fantasy-rationale behind this restriction could be that it requires some skill to harness the gems from the item. You would still be able to "hoard" them, but the mules would a least not be cheap scouts etc. Or make the total combined path requirement 4, then it would be quite expensive to use more than 20 of each - and I wouldn't call 20-30 pearls in a big game "hoarding".

[ckfnpku]

Another way would be if the gems where tied to the item, so they couldn't be put in the lab. And perhaps the items could even be cursed, so they can't be moved around.

[PvK]

Alneyan said:
...
The other way is, as usual, to have a devoted host (and host only) check the game every single turn. This would, however, not exactly be feasible in this case, unless you only have a few players in the game.

They could check only every 10 or 20 turns, as long as the penalty for violation was doing their turn for them and throwing away all their magic items and gems. Hoarding doesn't do any good unless the hoarder can keep the hoard for longer than that.

PvK