Ulm beefed up ...

Boron · #1 January 5th, 2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Cainehill said:

E3F1, or E2F2, or E2F1 and 1 elemental would also be fine, imo - your E3F1 might be a little overpowered, since every national mage could do bladewind and whatnot.

As you said later yourself every mastersmith can do summon EP . Then even every unmodded mastersmith can do bladewind + magma eruption .

But forgingwise E3 or 1 elemental random would be maybe too good for ulm .
Both eleminate the need to forge boots of earth first before starting dwarfen hammer production .
With 1 elemental random ulm would out of a sudden be a top clamforger .

Hard to improve them without making them instantly a top 5 nation .

Most weak considered themes/nations though have no randoms :
- Ulm base
- RotR
- Pan new age
- Vanheim helheim
(- Mictlan )

Tuna-Fish · #2 January 5th, 2005, 08:43 AM

Also note that e3 gives very easy access to cheap petrify, one of the best anti-sc spells out there. (quaranteed paralyse) Then again, that might just do it for ulm

Sandman · #3 January 5th, 2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

3E2F1?????

I did say it was fearsome. Bear in mind that this mega-smith would NOT be sacred, unlike most top-tier mages, and would be expensive to upkeep.

Even so, I have to agree that it would probably be overpowered, with all the mad forging opportunities.

Alternative Ulm magic ideas:

Apprentice Smiths: A new, low-tier caster for Ulm. One pick in Earth, as well as drain-immunity and the forging bonus. Should probably cost about 70 gold. The inclusion of this unit would enhance Ulm's magical abilities by providing a more efficient researcher and low-level forger, freeing up Master Smiths for more important duties. The apprentice wouldn't be particularly useful on the battlefield. You could get him up to Earth-3 with Earth boots and Earth Power, which might be worth it, although Master Smiths are probably a better choice to give items to.

Alchemists: Ulm has an alchemist pretender, so why not give them regular alchemists, with one earth, one fire and one astral? At a reasonable cost. No forge bonus or drain-immunity for them, of course. But even so, that single astral pick would give them a smattering of new strategies to pursue, most notably crystal matrixes. The 50% bonus to alchemy would be handy as well; possibly TOO handy.

Boron · #4 January 5th, 2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Sandman said:
Alternative Ulm magic ideas:

I agree too that a 2nd weak mage would be nice for ulm imo .

An Earth 1 apprentice could though forge nothing useful expect boots of earth with a pair of boots of earth on him . So without forge of ancients up he would be only useful as researcher probably .
As you said making him able to cast blade wind on the battlefield is not worthy it as well because every normal ulm smith can do this without empowering and additionaly can do magma eruption as well .

The alchemist is not a bad idea imo . For the purpose of alchemizing you need only 1 alchemist though .
Earth + fire magic lvl 1 you don't need also because you have this on your mastersmiths .
So once you find sages or similiar the alchemist becomes obsolete unfortunately probably as well .
Finally i think it is not possible to give units alchemy bonus by modding commands .

Maybe ulm should get a 2nd mage like a sage with 1 random , could be fully random or a sorcery random or an elemental random .
Ulm as a good research nation is wrong though imo as well .

Ulms main problem is probably that it has nothing against Airnations . At least nothing half cost effective .

Giving ulms smiths though 1 random makes them too powerful because of their cheap forging .

Giving them only 1 higher earth or fire magic is problematic as well , especially the earth magic .
Giving them any other additional magic is unthematic as well .

Boron · #5 January 5th, 2005, 01:35 PM

What about giving them a 2nd mage with 2 randoms , but no good research , no forgeboni , no good stats , no drainimmunity ?
Price 90-120 gold , not sacred .

They can be considered to be bought but are mainly only useful for some forging + some lowlvl summoning + some sitesearching .

On the other hand a spectre is exactly that anyways

So the only thing to improve them without changing the master smiths or adding a 2nd mage would be to make ulms troops really the best in the game .

One approach would be to give them non-capitol only blessable troops .
Another would be to make 1 or 2 elite warriors which are very expensive resourcewise , but equipped with e.g. rainbow armors or anything similiar to make them a bit tougher against the powerful airspells .

PrinzMegaherz · #6 January 5th, 2005, 01:42 PM

I think the 2E1F1R Smith is the only logical solution to make Ulm's theme as a forging nation valid.
As it has been pointed out before, Ulm is supposed to forge lots of items, but seriously, without at least one random there isn't much worth forging.
Or, if 2E1F1R is supposed to be too strong, why not 2E1R?

Boron · #7 January 5th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

PrinzMegaherz said:
I think the 2E1F1R Smith is the only logical solution to make Ulm's theme as a forging nation valid.
As it has been pointed out before, Ulm is supposed to forge lots of items, but seriously, without at least one random there isn't much worth forging.
Or, if 2E1F1R is supposed to be too strong, why not 2E1R?

If you make the ulm master smiths stronger though you make Iron faith completely undesireable .

Sandman · #8 January 6th, 2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Boron said:
The alchemist is not a bad idea imo . For the purpose of alchemizing you need only 1 alchemist though .
Earth + fire magic lvl 1 you don't need also because you have this on your mastersmiths .
So once you find sages or similiar the alchemist becomes obsolete unfortunately probably as well .
Finally i think it is not possible to give units alchemy bonus by modding commands .

The alchemist is already in the game, he's a rare indy mage. Costs about 300 gold, though.

Endoperez · #9 January 6th, 2005, 09:27 AM

Okay, I took a break from forum at the wrong time. Back up there, I had written E2D2 when I had meant to write E2F2... :ashamed:

Lots of people here seem to want a random for Master Smiths. However, that would give Ulm very different feel. That one random in eg. Water or Air does not allow them to forge the more powerful items, "only" things like Boots of Flying, Water Bracelet, resistance items and weapons... but it allows them to search for sites! Ulm can empower and then cheaply make booster items. 75 gems for access to 10 gem, at maximum!, Air boosters is not as bad as it sounds. 4 boosters are 115 for Ulm, 80 for Air nations without Dwarven Hammers, and if those nations have Dwarven Hammers they had to trade for it. Which gives Ulm Air gems...

Also, Ulm's mages have only E2. However, each one of them can forge Earth Boots and cast Earth Power. With Dwarven Hammer, Ulmish smiths can make Earth Boots for 5 gems. 5 Gems and 20-something fatique for E4? If they had a chance for E4, as with all E3FxR suggestions, they would have a chance for E6, or E5 for rituals like Forge of the Ancients.

I am not very good at balancing and can't say if that is too much or too little, I am just stating that even an elemental random will make Ulm very different and give them many, many more options.

Graeme Dice · #10 January 6th, 2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Boron said:
But forgingwise E3 or 1 elemental random would be maybe too good for ulm .

Vanheim's Dwarves are E3?1, and nobody seems to complain about those too much. Really, Ulm needs a lot of help. I'd probably also give Black Lords 50% resist all elements as well, so that you can slap an elemental armour on them and go to town against SCs. That way people wouldn't be able to ignore the heavy armour so easily.