Generals and outrunning their own bodyguards

[Pnakotus]

You're kidding? Even the standard generals can be effective in combat with guards; and even pretenders will get sliced by themselves. Guards are essential until you've got piles of magic items.

And I'm learning that most people here play the huge maps PBEM, so their experience is almost the opposite of mine (smaller maps in one sitting, TCP).

[FarAway Pretender]

Yeah, I find myself erring on the side of scripting cautiously, so a General doesn't end up in the melee until a turn or two after the footsoldiers arrive. Just position him directly behind a big block of infantry that's slower than he is, and then make him "Hold" two turns longer than they do (since heroes get up to 5 scripted orders and the "Hold & then Attack" option only delays 2 turns, this is easy). He misses out on some of the early killing, but he also (more importantly) doesn't die himself, which is a lot more important if you're trying to secure some Heroic bonuses and/or pad his stats with a little experience.

I don't play much MP, but my impression is that they just hold off, assembling various collections of magic items, until a hero is near-invincible before risking anybody in a battle. Once you get into the MP mid-game, I think there are enough tactics/killer combos figured out that it gets a bit more formulaic.

[Jack Simth]

One method of avoiding the issue would be to not script the troops as bodygaurds - instead, have them attack, and start the hero further back.

[quantum_mechani]

Pnakotus said:
You're kidding? Even the standard generals can be effective in combat with guards; and even pretenders will get sliced by themselves. Guards are essential until you've got piles of magic items.

You would have a very hard time carving up the average MP pretender with normal troops...

Casting something like quickness, iron skin, mirror image, breath of winter, mistform on a reason able combat chassis is the usual early fighter. Magic items is is the main method of turning non-pretenders in super combatants, once you get to construction 4 there are enough items to make a good normal army killer.

[Endoperez]

You would have a very hard time carving up the average MP pretender with normal troops...

Casting something like quickness, iron skin, mirror image, breath of winter, mistform on a reason able combat chassis is the usual early fighter. Magic items is is the main method of turning non-pretenders in super combatants, once you get to construction 4 there are enough items to make a good normal army killer.

The discussion was about commanders, and having some bodyguards with them when they reach the enemy. It is not easy task, but sometimes it's the only way you can try, and it surely works better than doing nothing.

Shouldn't any magic weapon be enough to break both mistform and mirror image when it hits? With e.g. Fire Sword (dam 12, att 4) and reasonable combat commander (att 12+) it just might work. And after Constr. 2, Lightning Whip (10 dam, no str, armor neg.) with heroic attack or Ring of the Warrior/Burning Pearl will help getting through the armor, and with good str (Jotun/heroic/bear claw talisman + girdle of might + boots of giant strength if you are reallydesperate) with Duskdagger (dam 3, armor neg.) can get through immense armor. Depending on enemy, Serpen Kryss (against lowish hp, especially when wielded by multiple units) or Smasher might also work.

[quantum_mechani]

Endoperez said:

The discussion was about commanders, and having some bodyguards with them when they reach the enemy. It is not easy task, but sometimes it's the only way you can try, and it surely works better than doing nothing.

Shouldn't any magic weapon be enough to break both mistform and mirror image when it hits? With e.g. Fire Sword (dam 12, att 4) and reasonable combat commander (att 12+) it just might work. And after Constr. 2, Lightning Whip (10 dam, no str, armor neg.) with heroic attack or Ring of the Warrior/Burning Pearl will help getting through the armor, and with good str (Jotun/heroic/bear claw talisman + girdle of might + boots of giant strength if you are reallydesperate) with Duskdagger (dam 3, armor neg.) can get through immense armor. Depending on enemy, Serpen Kryss (against lowish hp, especially when wielded by multiple units) or Smasher might also work.

I was assuming from his comment about pretenders being sliced to bits that he wasn't aware of using SCs. As for using magic weapons to break mirror image and mistform,it can be quite difficult. It is certainly possible to kill the pretender with the right items/spells, but it is risky and it can be difficult to actually catch the SC with your army in some cases.