OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

But that is american culture. I'm not saying that capitalism is an exclusively american thing, or that the US even invented it, but the form of excessive, aggressive, all-absorbing, all-homogenising, lowest-common-denominator, ignorance-worshipping capitalism that is currently melting the population of the entire universe into a gigantic, brainless, MTV-cloned consumer-pool for rampant, soulless multinationals was very much born in the US in the latter half of the last century. I guess it's difficult for Americans to appreciate just how invasive this influence feels to everyone else. For example, this year I've seen the first few Humvees in this country, and it sickens me that people here are actually becoming ignorant enough to think these hulking abominations are actually desirable on our overpopulated little island with its narrow old streets and city centres.

Thnx Dogscoff... thats exactly my point

[Slynky]

StrategiaInUltima said:

Thnx Dogscoff... thats exactly my point

Then go complain to the people that purchased them and quit blaming America for an "arm-twisting" that didn't occur. In order for something to sell, there needs to be a market. (I shake my head everytime I see one, too!)

[TerranC]

Slynky said:
Then go complain to the people that purchased them and quit blaming America for an "arm-twisting" that didn't occur. In order for something to sell, there needs to be a market. (I shake my head everytime I see one, too!)

Our point exactly.

[Renegade 13]

Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

- Fat has been proven to be as addictive in some cases as nicotine (addictive agent in cigarettes). Therefore, the point made below about cigarettes being different than fast-food due to addictive factor is not horribly accurate. However, I think that people who used to smoke before it was known to be unhealthy....that's not so much their fault as people being fat is. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who are overweight due to eating lots of fast food. Like someone said, it's your own hand that's stuffing your own face. Your own choice.

- Americans are by no means the only people who practice "cultural imperialism" if there is such a thing. They are simply the most successful at it, and therefore they take the brunt of the criticism of the world. Doesn't at all mean that other countries aren't trying to do the same thing...maybe even some of your own countries?? (referring of course to the people here who are not American)

- Oil: The middle east supplies a lot of the worlds oil, granted, but here in Canada, in the tar sands of Alberta there is supposedly more oil trapped in the sands than is in most of the middle east oil reserves. Also, where I live, in British Columbia, there's huge oil reserves off the coast and actually all over the province. They simply haven't been tapped as much as the middle east has done. My point is, if the Middle East cuts the world off oil, it won't be such a horrible thing. In fact, I'd prefer it if we didn't have to rely on such an unstable part of the world for a product that most of us use in our daily lives. Be happy Americans, NAFTA forces Canada to sell you whatever oil you want to buy from us. Even though you still won't accept our beef!!

Now, not all of what I have said has any bearing on this conversation, but I hope it all does relate to the central theme, or at least to the many tangents this conversation has followed.

Oh, and for those of you thinking I must be American, because I'm not blaming America for all the world's problems, think again. I'm Canadian, and yes, there is a difference . A big one. Whose culture would you rather be under the influence of, American, where people are usually considered equal, at least under the law, or a culture like the Indian one, where it's perfectly alright to kill a woman simply because she 'shamed' your family? Or another similar culture?? Always remember, no matter how bad things are, they can always, always get much worse...until you're dead. Cant' get much worse than that, eh??

[Ragnarok-X]

Renegade 13 said:
Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

No offense, but you should open your eyes. Under NO circumstances would countries with history like france and especially germany be willing to openly accept the stationing of nuclear weapons within their countries. BUT, and thats the point here, would they have denied the US request they would have to face certain consequences. When germany didnt participated in the iraq war, most german companies were sanktioned and didnt received ANY official orders/tasks both in iraq and afganistan. Up to NOW, it is inofficialy known that german companies are overseen when choosing which companies get which order. And THIS indeed is cultural imperalism. I dont get your point...
Over the last month i have read so many articles its hardly to believe. I think europens definitly get to know more than americans or canadians or texans or whatever. Would you know what i do, i would be sure you would agree on the entire line with me. America is wrong, american people, the gouverment, the president, their are all wrong and need to be taken care off. I dont know how, but something must happen in the near future. While im at it, i dont entirely blame the population for it, because they are somehow kept "stupid". I mainly blame the newspapers and tv and stuff for not spreading information correctly. Then again, i fully blame the gouverment and whoever helped bringing bush into the presidents position.

[Renegade 13]

Ragnarok-X said:
No offense, but you should open your eyes. Under NO circumstances would countries with history like france and especially germany be willing to openly accept the stationing of nuclear weapons within their countries. BUT, and thats the point here, would they have denied the US request they would have to face certain consequences. When germany didnt participated in the iraq war, most german companies were sanktioned and didnt received ANY official orders/tasks both in iraq and afganistan. Up to NOW, it is inofficialy known that german companies are overseen when choosing which companies get which order. And THIS indeed is cultural imperalism. I dont get your point...
Over the last month i have read so many articles its hardly to believe. I think europens definitly get to know more than americans or canadians or texans or whatever. Would you know what i do, i would be sure you would agree on the entire line with me. America is wrong, american people, the gouverment, the president, their are all wrong and need to be taken care off. I dont know how, but something must happen in the near future. While im at it, i dont entirely blame the population for it, because they are somehow kept "stupid". I mainly blame the newspapers and tv and stuff for not spreading information correctly. Then again, i fully blame the gouverment and whoever helped bringing bush into the presidents position.

It is most certain the Germany and France etc would not dare to refuse the stationing of American missiles in their countries. Though I'm not exactly certain why, since the US in turn could only impose economic sanctions in return. Granted, those do hurt, a lot. I should know. The product my parents produce is currently "prohibited" from entering the US, so I know how important sanctions are first hand! I also am aware that the US only gave contracts for "rebuilding" Iraq and Afghanistan to those who supported their war. Yes, I would agree that that is a form of "cultural imperialism", if there is such a thing. America as a whole may be "wrong" as you say, but the people are not all wrong. They are simply ignorant. Now, the people who helped elect Bush, they are definitely "wrong" in my opinion. Then again, would Kerry have been any better?? In some ways yes, in others no. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, is that it? It seems like it to me. The government, the leaders, yes they are wrong. In some important ways at least.

To go back to the German companies being "overlooked" in favor of companies who were based in a country that supported Bush's war. Canada was one of the countries who did NOT support the Iraq war the US waged. We too have been the victim of the same discrimination against our fully qualified companies. I don't believe that I am ignorant, which you seemed to be implying. I may not be as fully informed as you are, I agree that that is completely possible. But I do my best with the information that I have at my disposal.

I have intended no offense. All I was doing is trying to explain things as I see them. This conversation we're having is the exact reason why I posted, so that I could be informed of other viewpoints, and learn new things. I thank you for enlightening me, and I hope that I may have managed in some small way to help you to learn something as well.

[Thermodyne]

I have just one thing to say on this. The fact that much of the world has the right to chose their way of life at all, is do in large part to the actions of the United States. How soon the ungrateful will forget.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Sorry... did not try to avoid the filter, was just a typo. Will watch it in the fututre.

The cold war ended. I know. But I still think that IF a WWIII breaks out, someone will *push the button*. Be it the USA (tho unlikely), France (also unlikely), the N-Koreans (more likely), the Iranians (dunno 'bout them), the Pakistanis (dunno 'bout them too), or some Evil Genius (nothing personal) on an island retreat, I believe that at least ONE or SOME nukes WILL BE USED IN WWIII... if WWIII ever happens, that is. Certainly hope it doesn't.

[TerranC]

No offense, but you should open your eyes. Under NO circumstances would countries with history like france and especially germany be willing to openly accept the stationing of nuclear weapons within their countries.

France has nukes of its own; Germany doesn't need to host any nukes if it does currently since US bases in Italy can more than accomodate them. Both countries don't need to station US nukes, or at least not anymore. If it wasn't for the vehement opposement of German politicians, bases in Germany would quickly be closed and US service personnel would be sent home or somewhere else where they are needed like Turkey or the Persian Gulf.

BUT, and thats the point here, would they have denied the US request they would have to face certain consequences. When germany didnt participated in the iraq war, most german companies were sanktioned and didnt received ANY official orders/tasks both in iraq and afganistan. Up to NOW, it is inofficialy known that german companies are overseen when choosing which companies get which order. And THIS indeed is cultural imperalism. I dont get your point...

Of course that's cultural imperialism. It doesn't matter that companies of 48 nations from all five continents were eligible to recieve contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq, ranging from the UK to South Korea to Japan to the Netherlands to Poland to the Ukraine and many more, because their respective nations gave direct or indirect support (and some not even troops) to the Coalition war effort, as long as Russian, German, French, and Canadian companies were never even considered even after their respective governments chose not to get themselves involved with Iraq in any way possible, that just shows the blatant pervasiveness of US cultural dominance that the Americans seek to diffuse around the world!

Edit: Btw, you must have missed this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/am...mit/index.html

Over the last month i have read so many articles its hardly to believe. I think europens definitly get to know more than americans or canadians or texans or whatever.

Of course, I mean, those european media outlets get their news not just from Reuters but from Associated Press too! Just like every other media outlet in the world.

Would you know what i do, i would be sure you would agree on the entire line with me. America is wrong, american people, the gouverment, the president, their are all wrong and need to be taken care off.

And this is a sure sign that europeans such as yourself know a lot more about the world than the rest of us.

I dont know how, but something must happen in the near future. While im at it, i dont entirely blame the population for it, because they are somehow kept "stupid". I mainly blame the newspapers and tv and stuff for not spreading information correctly. Then again, i fully blame the gouverment and whoever helped bringing bush into the presidents position.

[Renegade 13]

TerranC said:
Edit: Btw, you must have missed this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/am...mit/index.html

I stand corrected. However, the right to bid on a contract doesn't necessarily mean that the aforementioned bid will be considered, does it? Pure political posturing. (The Triple P )