OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Renegade 13]

Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

- Fat has been proven to be as addictive in some cases as nicotine (addictive agent in cigarettes). Therefore, the point made below about cigarettes being different than fast-food due to addictive factor is not horribly accurate. However, I think that people who used to smoke before it was known to be unhealthy....that's not so much their fault as people being fat is. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who are overweight due to eating lots of fast food. Like someone said, it's your own hand that's stuffing your own face. Your own choice.

- Americans are by no means the only people who practice "cultural imperialism" if there is such a thing. They are simply the most successful at it, and therefore they take the brunt of the criticism of the world. Doesn't at all mean that other countries aren't trying to do the same thing...maybe even some of your own countries?? (referring of course to the people here who are not American)

- Oil: The middle east supplies a lot of the worlds oil, granted, but here in Canada, in the tar sands of Alberta there is supposedly more oil trapped in the sands than is in most of the middle east oil reserves. Also, where I live, in British Columbia, there's huge oil reserves off the coast and actually all over the province. They simply haven't been tapped as much as the middle east has done. My point is, if the Middle East cuts the world off oil, it won't be such a horrible thing. In fact, I'd prefer it if we didn't have to rely on such an unstable part of the world for a product that most of us use in our daily lives. Be happy Americans, NAFTA forces Canada to sell you whatever oil you want to buy from us. Even though you still won't accept our beef!!

Now, not all of what I have said has any bearing on this conversation, but I hope it all does relate to the central theme, or at least to the many tangents this conversation has followed.

Oh, and for those of you thinking I must be American, because I'm not blaming America for all the world's problems, think again. I'm Canadian, and yes, there is a difference . A big one. Whose culture would you rather be under the influence of, American, where people are usually considered equal, at least under the law, or a culture like the Indian one, where it's perfectly alright to kill a woman simply because she 'shamed' your family? Or another similar culture?? Always remember, no matter how bad things are, they can always, always get much worse...until you're dead. Cant' get much worse than that, eh??

[Ragnarok-X]

Renegade 13 said:
Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

No offense, but you should open your eyes. Under NO circumstances would countries with history like france and especially germany be willing to openly accept the stationing of nuclear weapons within their countries. BUT, and thats the point here, would they have denied the US request they would have to face certain consequences. When germany didnt participated in the iraq war, most german companies were sanktioned and didnt received ANY official orders/tasks both in iraq and afganistan. Up to NOW, it is inofficialy known that german companies are overseen when choosing which companies get which order. And THIS indeed is cultural imperalism. I dont get your point...
Over the last month i have read so many articles its hardly to believe. I think europens definitly get to know more than americans or canadians or texans or whatever. Would you know what i do, i would be sure you would agree on the entire line with me. America is wrong, american people, the gouverment, the president, their are all wrong and need to be taken care off. I dont know how, but something must happen in the near future. While im at it, i dont entirely blame the population for it, because they are somehow kept "stupid". I mainly blame the newspapers and tv and stuff for not spreading information correctly. Then again, i fully blame the gouverment and whoever helped bringing bush into the presidents position.

[Renegade 13]

Ragnarok-X said:
No offense, but you should open your eyes. Under NO circumstances would countries with history like france and especially germany be willing to openly accept the stationing of nuclear weapons within their countries. BUT, and thats the point here, would they have denied the US request they would have to face certain consequences. When germany didnt participated in the iraq war, most german companies were sanktioned and didnt received ANY official orders/tasks both in iraq and afganistan. Up to NOW, it is inofficialy known that german companies are overseen when choosing which companies get which order. And THIS indeed is cultural imperalism. I dont get your point...
Over the last month i have read so many articles its hardly to believe. I think europens definitly get to know more than americans or canadians or texans or whatever. Would you know what i do, i would be sure you would agree on the entire line with me. America is wrong, american people, the gouverment, the president, their are all wrong and need to be taken care off. I dont know how, but something must happen in the near future. While im at it, i dont entirely blame the population for it, because they are somehow kept "stupid". I mainly blame the newspapers and tv and stuff for not spreading information correctly. Then again, i fully blame the gouverment and whoever helped bringing bush into the presidents position.

It is most certain the Germany and France etc would not dare to refuse the stationing of American missiles in their countries. Though I'm not exactly certain why, since the US in turn could only impose economic sanctions in return. Granted, those do hurt, a lot. I should know. The product my parents produce is currently "prohibited" from entering the US, so I know how important sanctions are first hand! I also am aware that the US only gave contracts for "rebuilding" Iraq and Afghanistan to those who supported their war. Yes, I would agree that that is a form of "cultural imperialism", if there is such a thing. America as a whole may be "wrong" as you say, but the people are not all wrong. They are simply ignorant. Now, the people who helped elect Bush, they are definitely "wrong" in my opinion. Then again, would Kerry have been any better?? In some ways yes, in others no. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, is that it? It seems like it to me. The government, the leaders, yes they are wrong. In some important ways at least.

To go back to the German companies being "overlooked" in favor of companies who were based in a country that supported Bush's war. Canada was one of the countries who did NOT support the Iraq war the US waged. We too have been the victim of the same discrimination against our fully qualified companies. I don't believe that I am ignorant, which you seemed to be implying. I may not be as fully informed as you are, I agree that that is completely possible. But I do my best with the information that I have at my disposal.

I have intended no offense. All I was doing is trying to explain things as I see them. This conversation we're having is the exact reason why I posted, so that I could be informed of other viewpoints, and learn new things. I thank you for enlightening me, and I hope that I may have managed in some small way to help you to learn something as well.

[Thermodyne]

I have just one thing to say on this. The fact that much of the world has the right to chose their way of life at all, is do in large part to the actions of the United States. How soon the ungrateful will forget.

[Nodachi]

I've always found it interesting that with all the money the US spends overseas (look at our trade deficits) it seems to be one of the most hated countries of the world.

Earlier in the thread someone (I forget who) pointed out that the US invaded Iraq without the UN's consent. I would like to point out two things concerning that; #1 - The US was just enforcing an already existing UN resolution, and #2 - The US (or any other sovereign nation) does not need the UN's consent to do anything. The UN is just another example of a corupt bureaucracy that is more concerned with maintaining and increasing it's own power than doing the job it was created for.

[Suicide Junkie]

Perhaps better PR would help.

All you hear the US doing overseas is bombing countries into the ground...

[Atrocities]

Suicide Junkie said:
Perhaps better PR would help.

All you hear the US doing overseas is bombing countries into the ground...

Because that is all the media wishes to report as it drives up views and or readers. Think bigger, don't let the media dictate your opinion. Ya the media would love nothing better than to convince the world that all the US military is out to do is bomb little helpless people back into the stone age. Give me a f***ing break.

Don't buy into the propaganda. Just think for yourselves for a God damn change and ask yourselves some questions. Like why would the US bomb said country into the ground.... Hummm could it be because there is a larger goal or issue at stake? I don't know and I really don't want to speculate. All I know is that we are not doing this simply to do it as the world media has seemed to decree. In fact who the hell are these SOB's that they can tell you and I what to think and what we should believe? They are nothing more than rich SOB's out to make themselves richer off of our interest in whats going on. They cast the US in a bad light and feed the fires of resentment not over fair and accurate news, but over the all mighty green back, deutch mark, frank, rupple, pound, Loonie, or whatever the hell your currancy is. They are telling us what they think we should know in such a way as to stir the fricking pot. The truth died long ago and with it, any resemblence of real news. Hell if it were Bill Clinton doing this the UN would be selling seats like it was major sporting event. "Come one come all, come get rich quick off the scams we running now." The world media would be casting the insurgance in Iraq as the blood thristy criminals they really are and not has the heroic freedom fighters that they are NOT.

I shudder to think of Bill Clinton as SG of the UN.. OMFG NO!!!! And his slevok wife as the President of the USA.. ... No Way In Hell that should ever be allowed to happen. My god the USA would become a puppet nation to the UN.

[Renegade 13]

EvilGenius, I agree with nearly everything you have said. It simply is too easy to criticize, and not look at the way things "could have been". Most of the time, the other options the US had would have led us eventually to a worse world. I'm not saying I like wars, but sometimes wars are the only way to change corrupt, and just truely evil places. I for one am happy my country is an ally of the US. And I'm sure as hell happy that the US is around....if it wasn't I'd probably be speaking Japanese by now.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Sorry... did not try to avoid the filter, was just a typo. Will watch it in the fututre.

The cold war ended. I know. But I still think that IF a WWIII breaks out, someone will *push the button*. Be it the USA (tho unlikely), France (also unlikely), the N-Koreans (more likely), the Iranians (dunno 'bout them), the Pakistanis (dunno 'bout them too), or some Evil Genius (nothing personal) on an island retreat, I believe that at least ONE or SOME nukes WILL BE USED IN WWIII... if WWIII ever happens, that is. Certainly hope it doesn't.

[dogscoff]

If your culture is so superior then just do what we do and market it. Let's see something coming back this way instead.

You can't market culture. That's kind of the point. You might as well try to vacuum pack a live cow. All you end up with is a cheap plastic imitation of culture.