OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Sorry... did not try to avoid the filter, was just a typo. Will watch it in the fututre.

The cold war ended. I know. But I still think that IF a WWIII breaks out, someone will *push the button*. Be it the USA (tho unlikely), France (also unlikely), the N-Koreans (more likely), the Iranians (dunno 'bout them), the Pakistanis (dunno 'bout them too), or some Evil Genius (nothing personal) on an island retreat, I believe that at least ONE or SOME nukes WILL BE USED IN WWIII... if WWIII ever happens, that is. Certainly hope it doesn't.

[dogscoff]

If your culture is so superior then just do what we do and market it. Let's see something coming back this way instead.

You can't market culture. That's kind of the point. You might as well try to vacuum pack a live cow. All you end up with is a cheap plastic imitation of culture.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

bear in mind that there is no money to repair decaying soviet nuclear control centers.. this could pose a problem!

During the Cold War, WWIII was already averted by the narrowest of margins when a Soviet commander refused to launch a 'counterattack' despite the fact that their own new warning system showed first one than multiple nuclear missile launches from America.

As for North Korea, it would be limited to 5-6 nukes technologically if arms controls talks had not been screwed up repeatedly by Congressional funding disuptes and the Bush Administration. (The reasons for this are involved, but it involves the availability of fuels for differing types of nuclear weapons). 5-6 nukes are terrible, but not a holocaust.

As for China, they have no real interest in messing with the US; their currency is already artificially manipulated to be favorable vis a vis the Dollar, and they obtain huge benefits from foreign investment and manufacturing. Also, they own large amounts of US government debt; they'd lose a lot of money if the US tanked. Of course, people and governments are not always rational...

I would not say that the US is marketing culture, just business methodologies and, er, marketing. Standardized hotels, despite their soullessness, are a vast improvement on the random trashheaps that came before. Fast food chains really succeed because of distribution, branding, and costs-management... The people that run these things, they're businessmen; not really 'loyal' to a concept of America. A business that is not growing is a business whose stock price is stagnant; a business whose stock price is stagnant is one that will shortly find itself a new CEO. Thus, growth into world markets is not only natural but imperative for businesses that have saturated the US markets. Is Coca Cola cultural imperialism? It doesn't really seem that way. Is McDonalds or Burger King? Not really, although they are viewed as American brands. Maybe they are culture-destroying, but they arn't a culture in and of themselves! Interestingly, Jack Daniels is not viewed as an American brand (specifically; by Europeans) to nearly the extent that Budweiser is. (as specified in the article, "Don't Buy American", by Daniel Gross).

So what is American cultural imperialism? I think this really refers to the destruction of local culture to feed the American consumer market or the profits/stock price of multinational chains.

Well, okay, I will concede that Starbucks is cultural imperialism. None can deny that.

[AMF]

TheDeadlyShoe said:
So what is American cultural imperialism? I think this really refers to the destruction of local culture to feed the American consumer market or the profits/stock price of multinational chains.

The exact same thing happens in local American neighborhoods. Ever seen WalMart? Everywhere you go now in the States, place all look pretty much the same - the lowest common denominator prevails, and that is defined as the most efficient/profitable enterprise...it's not necessarily that American culture is bad, it's that although Capitalism is the most efficient wealth generating system we as humans have ever come up with, it also carries with it some inevitable repercussions - such as a leveling of society and economics to the most profitable, and class, taste, ethics, etc become irrelevant. That which makes money becomes the norm - whether we like it or not. Capitalism is great, free trade is great, I love NAFTA....but I am concerned about the "standardization" of society

Not sure I am making my point well....but...oh well...

[Atrocities]

Walmart is evil and thanks to Bill Clinton, is the downfall of the American way of life. No crap, PBS ran a NOVA show about it.

Clinton, being from the home state of Walmart, agreed to the free trade with China so that Walmart could get cheap goods. This free trade agreement put Rubbermade and many other companies out of business. Hell it was what started the recession in the first place. Before Billy Boy signed that agreement, the company I worked for was doing very well in the semi conductor market. Bill signed the agreement and over night the market collapsed. I kid you not, the bottom fell out within days of them signing that agreement and still has not recovered.

NAFTA hurt us a bit, but not as bad as free trade with China has. The Chinese swamped the world market, and the US with cheap quality low priced crap that no one could compete and voila, went under. They are not kidding when they say that the Chinese controlled Bill Clinton, they did. They paid that tratorous SOB millions and helped to get him re-elected. He ruined our economy because WalMart wanted cheap goods to sell in their stores.

Its ironic now that many Americans have to go to Walmart to buy stuff because they cannot aford to go to other stores. Ironic. (Its like feeding off of your own body, eventually you die.)

[Captain Kwok]

Umm, there is no free trade agreement between the US and China...

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
Umm, there is no free trade agreement between the US and China...

Yes, yes their is Kwok, and yes situation it has caused is real and not imagined Kwok. Needless to say it functions as Free Trade. Our deficate in trade to chine is huge and growing. If not for the tarrifs placed on Chines high end TV's one or more US Television manufactures would have been run out of business.

Front Line Story

This is indicitive of a lot of businesses. More and more and more and more companies going under because of "free trade" with china.

[AMF]

Atrocities said:
Walmart is evil and thanks to Bill Clinton, is the downfall of the American way of life. No crap, PBS ran a NOVA show about it.

One, there is NO free trade with China. It is NORMALIZED trade through the WTO. The WTO is NOT a free trade organization, it is an organization that hopes, eventually, to be free trade promoting. It is primarily a dispute resolution and tariff reducing body. Do not confuse normalized trade with free trade. It used to be called "most favoured nation" status. "The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only international organization dealing with the global rules of trade between nations. Its main function is to ensure that trade flows as smoothly, predictably and freely as possible."

It is one of the greatest creations of the Post war world, in that it has had a key role in making the last fifty years the most prosperous the human race has ever known - it does this by standardizing trade relations, contracts, and lowering tariffs. The theoretical ultimate goal if the WTO is universal free trade. But it ain't there yet. Today it is primarily a dispute resolution body.

Two, to "blame" Clinton for the WTO (ie: normalizing trade with China) is not only ridiculous but completely ignores the facts for the sake of you getting in another (tiresome) jab at Clinton. Aside from the fact that it was Nixon that normalized relations with China in 1972, businessmen since 1970 have been clamouring for trade with China - and they have been overwhelmingly republican. The vote in Congress to normalize trade with China was very bipartisan and, frankly, very welcomed by the republicans in Congress. Last time I checked the Congress needed to ratify treaties - check the vote and then tell me how much you hate the WTO.

Needless to say, it's ridiculous to blame Clinton for everything wrong with the world. Separation of powers is the way the government works here. By your logic, Bush should be held accountable for everything that goes wrong while he's in office - and, oh, hey, by the way, his party controls all three branches of government. Clinton had to make do with only one. So, hey, hows Bush doing?

It makes rightists seem REAL stupid when Clinton hasn't been president for over four years and they still blame him for all the worlds' ills. It speaks to a certain amount of defensiveness and unwillingness or inability to exhibit any iota of objectivity or ability to self-criticize. Or a bleeif that they're oh so victimized by the left. It must be so terrible to be the victim all the time...but it's pretty hard to keep that facade up when the entire government is controlled by the Right now. But then again, I've never met a far rightist who could ever admit they made a mistake or were wrong about anything. Plenty of moderate republicans, of which I used to be one, could do so...But they have become pretty timid nowadays. The only one who isn't a coward is McCain. Everyone else kisses De'Lay's butt.

The hell with this. I am so tired of hearing the same broken record go on and on...there is such a thing as criticism and then there is mindless parotting of party lines without regard for facts, or for willful ignorance of facts. Propoganda is the rule of the day, both sides play into it. But as individuals we can make a choice to not be part of the problem. Don't be part of the problem.

Good bye.

Oh, here's the basic WTO pitch from their website:

The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only international organization dealing with the global rules of trade between nations. Its main function is to ensure that trade flows as smoothly, predictably and freely as possible.

The result is assurance. Consumers and producers know that they can enjoy secure supplies and greater choice of the finished products, components, raw materials and services that they use. Producers and exporters know that foreign markets will remain open to them.

The result is also a more prosperous, peaceful and accountable economic world. Virtually all decisions in the WTO are taken by consensus among all member countries and they are ratified by members' parliaments. Trade friction is channelled into the WTO's dispute settlement process where the focus is on interpreting agreements and commitments, and how to ensure that countries' trade policies conform with them. That way, the risk of disputes spilling over into political or military conflict is reduced.

By lowering trade barriers, the WTO’s system also breaks down other barriers between peoples and nations.

At the heart of the system — known as the multilateral trading system — are the WTO’s agreements, negotiated and signed by a large majority of the world’s trading nations, and ratified in their parliaments. These agreements are the legal ground-rules for international commerce. Essentially, they are contracts, guaranteeing member countries important trade rights. They also bind governments to keep their trade policies within agreed limits to everybody’s benefit.

The agreements were negotiated and signed by governments. But their purpose is to help producers of goods and services, exporters, and importers conduct their business.

The goal is to improve the welfare of the peoples of the member countries

[geoschmo]

You know, it's Clinton's fault Enterprise got cancelled too. (Oooo, I'm gonna regret that one, I just know it.)

[Gozra]

I have seen a couple of incorrect statements in this thread. I was in manufacturing about 5 years ago until I was laid off and About 8 years ago they closed the last factory that made TV's here in American. So there are no TV manufactures to suffer.
Some one mention that we are the only Imperial Power I beg to Differ China Just signed aggreement with several countries to establish military bases overseas to protect their trade routes.
I disagree that we are an Imperial power yet. I think we are still in our Republic Phase and if Things continue along with the federal Government being strong we won't switch over to Imperilism for another 20 years or so. (a cataylist for Empire is to have Military Units that no one cares if they are destroyed or not GEO points out a news article on the development of Robot soldiers built right here in America new Jobs for American Manufcturing anyone?)
And what could be so wrong about an American Imperium? Most people would benifit from it. Some one mentioned being able to drink from their toilet well I bet a lot of folks would be glad if America was in charge and they could drink from their american made Toilets.