Why are Sages fair? Opinions wanted!

[Yvelina]

I voted no. Sages are certainly nice, but in no way a requirement for victory.

I play Vanheim, and it is arguably one of the nations that needs a bit of help with research. But I also play with magic 3, and on that setting, sages are not much better than quite a few other indies, for example, shamans or amazon priestesses. There comes a time, often as early as turn 20, where I start building mages for their combat value, rather than their research ability.

And, as an aside, I cannot recall a game in which I found no decent indy researchers. In my current game, I had found two sage provinces by turn ten, and on turn 15, I took a onyx amazon province from my first opponent. Two turns later, I stopped building sages - I thought I needed the amazons and my national mages more.

[Endoperez]

Gold/RP calculator gives these results (Magic 1, 50 turns):

1 Arcoscephale - (Golden Era) Philosopher 0.65
2 Man - Daughter of Avalon 0.75
3 Independents - Sage 0.80
4&5 Tien Chi - Master of the Dead 0.85
6 Mictlan - Mictlan Priest 0.91
7 Pythium (Serpent Cult) - Serpent Acolyte 0.91
6-10 Other independents - Conjurer 0.91, Garnet Priestess 0.94, Jade Priestess 0.94
11-13 Various Tien Chi themes - Master of the Way´0.94
14-15 independents - Witch 0.94, Lore Master 0.95
16 Jotunheim - Vaetti Hag 1.01
17 Pangea (Carrion Woods) - Black Dryad 1.02
18 Abysia (Blood of Humans) - Newt 1.02
19 Pythium (base) Theurg Acolyte 1.02
20 Ctis/Indep - Shaman 1.03

From this, it seems that sages are one of the best researchers, but that there are lots of other options. However, the fact that nations/themes with the best researchers are often not played in competitive games seems to show that people rely they can find Sages or almost as good independents.

Going only 10 turns introduces lots of other independents and some more national troops, including Harab Seraph, Initiate of the Deep and Seithkona. However, many of the national researchers from the top 20 of 50 turns remain in the list, and the very top doesn't change much. Sage is still great.


Without playing games but looking at these numbers, I would say yes. Nations that can research fast/economically aren't played as often as they should if the magic really rules the game, and sage is in the very top both in short and long time invervals (?).

So, I hope that is good enough explanation for why someone without MP experience voted on this. You should really add "I don't play MP but am interested in the result" for those like us that don't play multiåplayer...