Random Picks and Modding...

[Scott Hebert]

Well, I have looked into Abysia. Perhaps it was not the best one to start with, but it may help matters. I'm still trying to 'tweak' the leadership numbers, but here's how it currently stands:

0 - 0
10 - 5
25 - 10
50 - 15
etc.

That's for normal leadership. Undead leadership costs twice base, magical leadership triple base.

Anyway, here are the 'breakdowns' for each Abysia (base theme) commander, for stats, leadership, and magic.

Slayer:
Commander: 10
Stats: 19
Leadership: 0
Magic: 0
Total: 29

Warlord:
Commander: 10
Stats: 18
Leadership: 15
Magic: 0
Total: 43

Beast Tamer:
Commander: 10
Stats: 16
Leadership: 20
Magic: 0
Total: 46

Anathemant Salamander:
Commander: 10
Stats: 8
Leadership: 10
Magic: 140
Total: 168

Anathemant Dragon:
Commander: 10
Stats: 11
Leadership: 10
Magic: 300
Total: 331

Warlock Apprentice:
Commander: 10
Stats: 4
Leadership: 5
Magic: 110
Total: 129

Warlock:
Commander: 10
Stats: 6
Leadership: 5
Magic: 257.5
Total: 278.5

Demonbred:
Commander: 10
Stats: 24
Leadership: 35
Magic: 200
Total: 269

Now, we have some assorted 'bennies' to hand out to the Abysians. They ALL have Heat (and thus Fire Immunity) and Wasteland Survival. In fact, that is all that the Warlord/Anathemants/Warlocks have left. Looking at the Anathemants, a cost of 30 seems to be 'about right' for Heat and Wasteland Survival.

Survival seems a weak ability, so 5 points sounds about right. That leaves 25 points for Heat. Exactly how that splits up (Heat by itself vs. the Fire Immunity... probably thinking 20 for Immunity), I'm not concerned yet. In any event, that seems to work there, so adding...

Slayer:
Subtotal: 19
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 49

Warlord:
Subtotal: 43
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 73

Beast Tamer:
Subtotal: 46
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 76

Anathemant Salamander:
Subtotal: 168
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 198

Anathemant Dragon:
Subtotal: 331
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 361

Warlock Apprentice:
Subtotal: 129
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 159

Warlock:
Subtotal: 278.5
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 308.5

Demonbred:
Subtotal: 269
Heat: 25
Survival: 5
Total: 299

Okay. The Warlord comes out more expensive than in the actual game, but the Beast Trainer and the Anathemants are more or less right on, as far as costs go. (Commander costs always seem to be rounded to the nearest multiple of 5.) The Warlock Apprentice and the Warlock are also a little overcosted, but they are capital-only, and so that may or may not be important. (I may have gotten the Warlock's magic calculation wrong as well, so I'm going to recheck that.)

The Beast Trainer supposedly has Animal Awe, but I doubt that really makes much of an impact, and so it's 0. Judging from the Slayer, Assassin (and Stealthy +5 to go with it) seems worth 30 points, so that's what I'm using there. As for the Demonbred, he's the real oddball. He's already over his 'normal' cost, and I haven't adjusted for Flying yet.

Anyway, I might take a look at Blood of Humans, and maybe Pythium, and get back to you guys some refinements.

[The_Tauren13]

I would give the captiol only guys -10% or so simply because they are cap only. Makes sense that capitol only mages should be cheaper, as they are 'exclusive'.

[Saber Cherry]

You need to factor in "Sacred." It reduces upkeep by 50%, so I would make it multiplicative (x1.5 to x1.75). I would certainly pay 1.5x to get "sacred" on a mage that will be around for a while, and that doesn't even include bless effects (air shield, lightning resistance, quickness, reinvigoration, twist fate... wow!)

[Turin]

Why is magical leadership so costly? There aren´t that many magic troops around which require huge amounts of magic leadership.
In fact the only one I see massed are mechanical men.

Undead and even regular leadership are far more important most of the time.

[Saber Cherry]

Turin said:
Why is magical leadership so costly? There aren´t that many magic troops around which require huge amounts of magic leadership.

That's why it is costly. With undead leadership, you NEED huge amounts for it to be useful, so it is cheap. With magic leadership, even 5 points can be highly effective, so it is valuable. Generally, magic leadership is already paid for by path cost, but sometimes it is separate (magic leaders, Illithids, Salamander trainers, etc).

[Graeme Dice]

Saber Cherry said:
With undead leadership, you NEED huge amounts for it to be useful, so it is cheap.

Undead leadership also applies to leading demons, which is why it's so valuable.

[The_Tauren13]

Are you sure priest costs dont already take into account being sacred? I would think 3 magic paths is alot better than 3 priest paths, so if a level 3 priest costs just as much as a level 3 mage, I would hope hes sacred.

[Scott Hebert]

Saber Cherry said:
You need to factor in "Sacred." It reduces upkeep by 50%, so I would make it multiplicative (x1.5 to x1.75). I would certainly pay 1.5x to get "sacred" on a mage that will be around for a while, and that doesn't even include bless effects (air shield, lightning resistance, quickness, reinvigoration, twist fate... wow!)

As I found out in an earlier analysis, sacred commanders have no cost increase over other commanders. At least, those that are priests have absolutely no cost increase over other commanders. The rare few that are not priests probably do have a cost increase.

It's rather counter-intuitive, but every single priest's cost would skyrocket if you added an extra 50% to his cost.

Really. Just tote up the magic costs on any mage out there, add 30, and you'll see that there's no extra charge for sacred commanders. I believe the Shaman is the sole exception.

As a counter-example, I offer the Daughter of Avalon.

[Scott Hebert]

The_Tauren13 said:
I would give the captiol only guys -10% or so simply because they are cap only. Makes sense that capitol only mages should be cheaper, as they are 'exclusive'.

Normally, I factor in a 20% reduction, but I'm not going to mess with that until later.