Recruitable Unit Rebalance Version 7.51 Released.

[The_Tauren13]

Id be interested.

[Arralen]

Me too !

[tinkthank]

Me too, if this were to be PBEM on a fairly relaxed basis. Awaiting a new baby in the next 1-4 weeks, and that will take priority.

I tested it so far only a little, and like very very much of it a whole lot. I really liked the fact that many units are coming into their own. Now, the Indy nations are more interesting, and the AI can make better use of them. More testing to come.

Some tiny "criticism-type" remarks so far (I have detailed my remarks so far in a text-doc I have at home but forgot to bring here, sorry), and perhaps this is said too quickly, but here goes anyhow:

- Many ranged units became asymptotically better than their counterpart melee units, thinking in particular of X-Bows (especially of the Marignon flavor), which became BOTH cheaper AND better. I would have like to see them ONLY cheaper, NOT better, at least for some of the Indy troops, because I would still prefer there to be an incentive to purchase National troops above Indy ones of the same type (that is: get Indy troops if you are in a hurry or if you lack that type altogether, e.g. x-bows or archers for Abysia). I found the Heavy Archer (equally good warrior as bowman) a bit too butch -- if he is really wearing all that armor, his precision should drop.
- Marignon is now too butch for my tastes: The X-bow is now a cheap elite unit and the KotChalice is now much less expensive (why? I think he filled his niche quite well before), and the Flagellant has become almost half-price.
- I approve of making Light Cav less expensive, but dislike the fact that their precision has increased simultaneously. I read your justification in the readme, and didnt quite feel comfortable with "horses sitting still" etc. -- it really isnt easy to fire a bow from a horse. Also, it makes my Oglala mod outdated! ;-)
- Damn, I had about 4 other small points, but I will have to get back to you with those.
More testing to follow!
Thanks for your mod!

[Saber Cherry]

tinkthank said:Some tiny "criticism-type" remarks so far (I have detailed my remarks so far in a text-doc I have at home but forgot to bring here, sorry)

I'll look forward to seeing the complete list when you find it

- Many ranged units became asymptotically better than their counterpart melee units, thinking in particular of X-Bows (especially of the Marignon flavor), which became BOTH cheaper AND better. I would have like to see them ONLY cheaper, NOT better, at least for some of the Indy troops, because I would still prefer there to be an incentive to purchase National troops above Indy ones of the same type (that is: get Indy troops if you are in a hurry or if you lack that type altogether, e.g. x-bows or archers for Abysia). I found the Heavy Archer (equally good warrior as bowman) a bit too butch -- if he is really wearing all that armor, his precision should drop.

Ok, I'll look into that. I did reduce the Xbow's range by 10%, by the way. You're right, though, archer units generally did get better overall... especially lightly armored ones, which (mostly) now have 2 strat moves so you can actually move them with a mobile army. I'll reevaluate the archer cost guidelines.

- Marignon is now too butch for my tastes: The X-bow is now a cheap elite unit and the KotChalice is now much less expensive (why? I think he filled his niche quite well before), and the Flagellant has become almost half-price.

Hmmmm. I like the cheap flagellant for thematic reasons, but I'll reexamine the other two. What do you think is a fair cost for the Xbow and KotC?

- I approve of making Light Cav less expensive, but dislike the fact that their precision has increased simultaneously. I read your justification in the readme, and didnt quite feel comfortable with "horses sitting still" etc. -- it really isnt easy to fire a bow from a horse.

I can always give them a +2 precision "horsebow" and drop their base precision to 8 Seriously, though, I need to find some way to make them worth buying... at precision 8, they're almost useless, but cost more than 2 (superior) foot archers. Any suggestions?

Also, it makes my Oglala mod outdated! ;-)

Not at all, they still lack the magic resistance and... um... aesthetic appeal No to mention poisoned arrows and stealth! I can also change the descriptions to something like, "Please note that this unit's stats do not reflect how clearly inferior it is to Oglala cavalry"

- Damn, I had about 4 other small points, but I will have to get back to you with those.
More testing to follow!
Thanks for your mod!

No, thank you for the feedback.

Huzurdaddi said:Nice mod I'm pretty impressed.

From my inital try it seems that I recruited a lot more cav than usual ( a good thing ).

The Matchaka archer is comical. You can build an aweful lot of those. They do seem pretty efficient. Although you need a growth dominion to feed them.

The only thing I can compain about is that it destroys a lot of my preconceived notions about what is useless and what is good. T'ien Ch'i with buff troops? Jotuns that don't run from combat? Up is down. I actually want to play man? What the heck is that all about?

Yay, pure praise As for Machaka Archers, every one you buy takes money away from Black Hunters With a Fire Arrows spell, they might become super-strong. But Machaka (IMO) is a very weak nation aside from their Black Hunters and Bane Spiders, so maybe that's OK...

Scott Hebert said:A short update from my end.

I've just gotten back from a trip. I'll be making my way through the rest of the commanders (probably just national for now) and posting the info on my own thread. It might be interesting to see what would happen if you played a game with both Cherry's unit mod and my (hopefully forthcoming) commander mod.

Sounds good to me! I'm looking forward to the Commander mod, though I will say that Recruitable Rebalance does affect some commanders: generally commander versions of normal troops, like Paladins, Niefel Jarls, Black Lords, Lord Guardians, Prince Generals, and all mounted commanders. Usually it just changes their stats or equipment (Tien Chi imperial consort gets a "slap" weapon). Very few prices were changed, and the only magic path change was the Prince General, who got Holy-2. So with minor exceptions, the mods should be fully compatible.

That said, I'm going to leave the forums and try to finish the magic / low magic mod.

[Scott Hebert]

Cool. Most of those guys would just get cheaper, on my end.

I don't plan, at this time, to do anything but shift costs around.

[tinkthank]

OK, some more:

I like the strat-2 move of most bowmen, fine. I would prefer them to maintain their 10-precision, however, for their cheaper price.

So I have this changed in my mod of your mod:

Heavy Archer Prec 10
Heavy Xbow prec 10
Indy Longbowmen: prec 10

Mari Xbow: prec 10 (Context of Cheaper Flagellants, cheaper units of your mod)
Flagellants: GCost 7 (still dirt cheap IMO, thats the upkeep of a modded Militiaman too!)
Knight of the Chalice: Stays at 90. Did you feel he has no niche at 90?

Lobos Gcost 4 (too good at 3) (Cherry, do you play Ryleh? Lobos are hands down the BEST recruitable fodder in the game, I loved them at 5 gold; you cant compare them to Militia, which rout -- these guys will sit there and take a beating, and I think 4 gold is a fine price to pay for the difficult task of lobotomizing those poor froggies.)

Warlock Apprecs: GREAT change with the douse, but nix fear, prec stays at 8 (for no increased cost) (who cares, they cast prec100 spells anyhow)

Riderless Spiders given smallish gold cost (30 hunter spider, 10) -- you have to pay for food, heheh -- but seriously, no upkeep is too good for these units

Machaka Archer 11 prec for 6 gold? (I dont know about this yet, havent had time to test. I think it may be too good, unsure.)

Vaetti cold resistance: Fine. Why not Nornae and Seithkonae 25 CR too!?

Here's a question, since you were so thoughtful to change all those descriptions: The Salamander still reads something like "When injured, can erupt in flames??" -- but it never does. Would it be possible to mod the unit so that OnDeath: small area fire?

Cu Sidhe: No supply bonus. (Do you eat your dogs?)
D. Sidhe: No reduced price. Why make them even cheaper?

All (Light) Cavalry: Kept the drastically reduced price, but maintained the low horsey precision. No, we will have to invest in Wind Guide or Aim or something.

Am wary about giving all those cavs higher morale, too. It is not the rider, but the horse which is hard to control.

OK that is all I had the time for so far, really must work, but will try to do this more systematically soon.

Thanks for all your work -- great mod!