Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him

[Azselendor]

Gbrutt, That's the problem, behe didn't discuss the topic he used, he simply offered opinions. Thay didn't expand on the topic, this is what his critics point out. Oddly, you say he's not a christian, however, any research into his work history shows the amount of work he did for creationist/intelligent design schools. By simplying saying someting is complicated and thus has to have someone design it on purpose, means nothing. It's grasping. Blood Clotting is a bio-chemical process and any doctor can tell you how it happens. Eye Development could more than likely be answered or even covered by any high school biology teacher. Exploding beatles? Come on now, that's something you can look up in a library. Science is never about answers, it is about finding the answers. Behe really needs to think before he rights. You should be able to find his critics by simply running a google search just like I did and pulling up the relevent articles and clippings.

On computers, while each step does involve a human mind, it's not the direction of a sole individual. It's the input and suggestion and needs of many being realized via the efforts of a single process. the programmer merely acts as evolution, not as god. that is a significant difference. As for the outcome requiring favorable conditions, not always. Infact, life has shown a remarkable ability to endure and continue even when faced with certain doom. to quote, "Life Finds a Way"

Excuse me, Biogenesis today is a corruption of the original concepts of Biogenesis. Creationists have latched onto it hoping to unseat evolution. Keep in ming the Miller-Urey experiment produced some of the organic components of life, but failed to produce a living, reproducing organism. not a borken breaker. This should be looked as not as a failure, but as a simple example that the technology doesn't exist yet to preform the tasks. And yes, we can create matter and energy in a lab. living creatures are just harder

Yes, the Steady State Theory has been alrgesly disproven, but keep in mind that the rate of expansion in the universe shouldn't be accelerating either. Big Bang theory doesn't make allowances for that.

Using the word 'Miracle' doesn't validate theology. Miracale is a way of expressing extreme probability.

The problem with creationist mythology is the fact that it does not answer questions. It just provides commentary from a book that people write off as answers without giving it a citital thought. You attack my phrases, but examine your own. You'll say one thing, a retract it or say something counter to a previous post. Behe, for example. How can you not know his religious standings? did you even read his book or just the inside dusk jacket flap? You own attacks on evolution are merely questions poised to look like you mock it. Answer Colin Patterson if they were directed to a creationist. The bible doesn't provide testable answers, it just says, "this is the answer, don't question it or you're satan". Besides, SJ's beat me to it. lol

Actually, I do not assume humans are as they always are today. Humands today differ from humans 100 years ago and from humans another hundred years more. Creationism and Bible Apologists assume humans have always been the same. You're entire argument on the lines from your misassumption of what i was talking about actually has nothing relevent to what I was saying. lol

What I was saying, and you didn't grasp it, was that if you assume god designed humans as they are today, then you also assume he did a piss poor job of making us in his image. Not a booboo, a PissPoor Job. The kind of job I'd expect from someone not paying attention to what they are doing.


SJ, I was pointing out humans are promoting evolution in various insects and bacteria by allowing the strongest of them to survive and reproduce by eliminating the the lower 99.9% of all life. Survivial of the fittest via dues ex machina.


back to gbrutt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment
Read an learn beyond the bible thumping. You need to get your facts straight.

[Atrocities]

I think, no better to say that I believe, I believe that we are doing more harm in the long run by tampering with the genetic code, biological make up, and the use of hormons in live stock and in the field of bioengeneering than we could possibly even begin to comprehend now. By splicing this bugs dna with that bugs dna in the hopes of creating a super bug that eats bad bugs, we are putting ourselves, and indeed our world at risk. This goes for insects, animals, planets, as well as virus - bugs and such.

[Instar]

Atrocities said:
I think, no better to say that I believe, I believe that we are doing more harm in the long run by tampering with the genetic code, biological make up, and the use of hormons in live stock and in the field of bioengeneering than we could possibly even begin to comprehend now. By splicing this bugs dna with that bugs dna in the hopes of creating a super bug that eats bad bugs, we are putting ourselves, and indeed our world at risk. This goes for insects, animals, planets, as well as virus - bugs and such.

So you're against animal husbandry? We've been genetically manipulating animals and plants for thousands of years. Genetic mondification isn't some bogeyman we can just invoke to scare people.

[Azselendor]

Take bananas, I mentioned them before as being open to extinction due to a lack of genetic diversity. Most livestock is the same way, it's part of the reason why Mad Cow and Hoof&Mouth diseases spread so quickly in the cattle population.

Let's say Cattle, Pigs, Goats, and a large vareity of popular fruits all go extinct. How much world starvation and suffering would that lead to? How many deaths? Genetic Engineering can prevent that. And don't forget the numerous genetic diseases that plague millions upon millions of humans.

As isntar said, Genetic Engineering isn't some boogymen that can be used to scare people one way or another.

[Suicide Junkie]

ISTM that Genetic engineering today is comparable to the technology of Fire back in the stone age somewheres.

We can see it happening naturally, and direct it a little with breeding. We've just recently discovered how to start our own in a very rough manner by rubbing sticks and scraping flint.
We've got a long way to go before we can make the steam engine of genetics, and like fire, it will have its dangers long past the time when we do have fine control.

[Instar]

SJ, you raise a valid point. But, as I said, we shouldn't fear it or ban it. GM food is one example. The general public sees it as "frankenfood," which just is not true. Copious amounts of research has gone into this field, and I can say that the chance that someone will get hurt is nonexistant.
This does not mean that I am for any genetic modification. Responsible science is needed, and thorough investigation is always needed.

[Azselendor]

Instar is right, care has to be taken in this process. Many conservative agendas portray Genetics as a negative and evil thing, but it's far from it and only used to energize the close minded.