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  #1  
Old March 27th, 2005, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

The most recent formula above provides an excellent fit to the data. However,
it may be interesting to see where the formula and the real price in the game
are very different. According to the formula, below are the top ten bargains
and ten worst buys for mages. What do you think?

Code:

Mage Real_Price Formula

Asmeg Jarl 160 249
Troll King 150 225
Centaur Hierophant 80 153
Sidhe Champion 140 210
Theurg 150 218
Sidhe Lord 280 348
Circle Master 100 164
Master 5 Elem. 190 252
Grand Master 270 330
Garnet Priestess 100 158

Pan 350 283
Arch Theurg 380 300
Niefel Jarl 500 419
Navigator 180 86
Capricorn 350 255
Lizard King 280 183
Hangadrott 400 282
High Priest of Sun 390 264
Anathemant Dragon 360 230
Alchemist 300 106

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  #2  
Old March 27th, 2005, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Alchemist, Anathemant Dragon, Hangadrott and Navigator have special abilities that are not counted in: alchemy bonus, fire immunity and heat, glamour, and sailing. And as Pan, Niefel Jarl, Carpicorn and Hangadrott are all physically powerful and undercosted, it seems this new formula doesn't take physical stats into account to the same extent than Illwinter does.
Also, is seems that priestly magic should rise exponentially (or at least in a rising curve, if that makes sense) so that Holy 4 is much better than twice Holy 2.

For the cheap ones, it seems part of the problem is that capital-onlyness does not reduce the price. Circle Master is the most cost-effective mage in the game before your modifications, so that might not be as bad as it looks.

Also, quite a many of them have priestly magic. I think 13 of these 20 units have priestly magic. Asmeg Jarl might have some, but Troll King, Circle Master, Pan, Navigator, Capricorn and Alchemist do not. Others do have atleast some, IIRC. You might want to check out holy magic again.
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Old March 27th, 2005, 08:23 AM

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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Some of the units that your formula report as overpriced are intentionally overpriced for thematic reasons, such as the Lizard King. I imagine people still buy him occasionally just for the fanaticism. Others, as Endoperez pointed out have special abilitites, Pan has autosummon, Niefel Jarl Cold Aura etc. Among the underpriced some are cheaper because they are rare independents, such as the circle master.

If one were to put any stock into your formula the most conspicous offender is probably the Sidhe champion, since he besides being underpriced has a few extra abilities. On the other hand he is home site only.
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Old March 27th, 2005, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Sacred troops and priests have 1/2 upkeep and are generally given costs 25-50% higher. This might explain some of the worst buys.

Sidhe Lord and Sidhe Champ seems to be way overpriced with your formula. Why is the sidhe lord more expensive than the hangadrott? The hangadrott is better in every way except that he can't wear shoes IIRC.
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  #5  
Old March 27th, 2005, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

I don't think a mage formula is any more relevant to Niefel Jarls as to Ice Devils. They aren't mages so much as supercombattants with free magic paths... that can go underwater...

Jarls and Ice Devils are similar, but nobody thinks of Ice Devils as mages.
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  #6  
Old March 27th, 2005, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

There are some database errors in the magic paths. Oops! The errors are
sporadic, so I doubt that the formula will change much. I will repost after I
correct the problem.
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  #7  
Old March 27th, 2005, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Here is the corrected version.

Cost = (2.7 * MagicRes) + (.6 * TacMove) + (.7 * RegLdr) +
(29.4 * FullRand) + (37.2 * ElemRand) + (26.9 * SorcRand) + (37.5 * Blood) +
(30.6 * Death) + (32.8 * Earth) + (33.2 * Fire) + (37.8 * Nature) +
(31.8 * Astral) + (33.2 * Water) + (16.3 * Holy) + (30.8 * Unholy) +
(2.5 * Att_Def) + (12.9 * Air_Prec) + (11.0 * HP_Str)

Att_Def = ((Att - 9.4) / 2.1) + ((Def - 9.5) / 3.2)

Air_Prec = ((Air - .3) / .7) + ((Prec - 10.6) / 1.9)

HP_Str = ((HP - 12.8) / 8.1) + ((Str - 10.5) / 3.2)


Here are the mismatch lists. The lists changed a little, so I also include the
ones that dropped off.

Code:
Mage            Real_Price   Formula

Starspawn 150 294
Sorceress 110 200
Centaur Hierophant 80 166
Asmeg Jarl 160 241
Troll King 150 229
Master 5 Elem 190 269
Witch Doctor 80 144
Sidhe Champion 140 203
Amber Clan Mage 160 220
Circle Master 100 160

Garnet Priestess 100 153
Theurg 150 210
*Sidhe Lord 280 274
Grand Master 270 317


Warrior Mage 200 142
Pan 350 290
Hydromancer 180 117
Starspawn 280 216
Navigator 180 102
High Priest of Sun 390 306
Lizard King 280 179
Capricorn 350 247
Anathemant Dragon 360 232
Alchemist 300 122

*Arch Theurg 380 339
Niefel Jarl 500 443
*Hangadrott 400 361


* These had database errors earlier.

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  #8  
Old March 27th, 2005, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Since there is a Starspawn in both lists, maybe it would be better for you to make sure which one is which... I haven't played R'lyeh in a long time, and can't remember which one is cheaper. Also, which Sorceress is that on the upper list?
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Old March 28th, 2005, 01:52 PM

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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Quote:
Kristoffer O said:
Sacred troops and priests have 1/2 upkeep and are generally given costs 25-50% higher. This might explain some of the worst buys.
As much as I hate to disagree with one of the game developers...

Using your own formulae, Sacred Commanders and Holy Priests have no extra gold cost.

Quote:
Sidhe Lord and Sidhe Champ seems to be way overpriced with your formula. Why is the sidhe lord more expensive than the hangadrott? The hangadrott is better in every way except that he can't wear shoes IIRC.
At a guess, because the Sidhe Lord has Air and Nature magic. The IW formula assumes equal paths have equal costs. Sushi's doesn't.

As for my own thoughts, most of these have small path levels. If I read the formula correctly, the path costs do not follow IW's formula, which reduces multiple paths at low levels.

The Circle Master can be removed, as it is not an offender. He should cost about 160; in fact, at 100 he is the most under-costed mage in the game, on a percentage basis.

The Master of the 5 Elements is the most obvious mage that I base my comments on.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 01:56 PM

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Default Re: Unit Cost Equation

Again, Sushi, the issue that I'm seeing with your cost analysis is that higher path levels aren't being given their properly higher costs. According to IW, magic paths have progressively increasing costs, and you have a simpler 'cost-per-level' scale.

If you go by IW costing, 2 in a single path is worth almost twice that of 1 in 2 paths.

About the only other concern I have is: where does the High Seraph fall?
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