Unit Cost Equation

[sushiboat]

The most recent formula above provides an excellent fit to the data. However,
it may be interesting to see where the formula and the real price in the game
are very different. According to the formula, below are the top ten bargains
and ten worst buys for mages. What do you think?

Code:

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Mage               Real_Price   Formula



Asmeg Jarl             160      249

Troll King             150      225

Centaur Hierophant      80      153

Sidhe Champion         140      210

Theurg                 150      218

Sidhe Lord             280      348

Circle Master          100      164

Master 5 Elem.         190      252

Grand Master           270      330

Garnet Priestess       100      158



Pan                    350      283

Arch Theurg            380      300

Niefel Jarl            500      419

Navigator              180       86

Capricorn              350      255

Lizard King            280      183

Hangadrott             400      282

High Priest of Sun     390      264

Anathemant Dragon      360      230

Alchemist              300      106

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[Endoperez]

Alchemist, Anathemant Dragon, Hangadrott and Navigator have special abilities that are not counted in: alchemy bonus, fire immunity and heat, glamour, and sailing. And as Pan, Niefel Jarl, Carpicorn and Hangadrott are all physically powerful and undercosted, it seems this new formula doesn't take physical stats into account to the same extent than Illwinter does.
Also, is seems that priestly magic should rise exponentially (or at least in a rising curve, if that makes sense) so that Holy 4 is much better than twice Holy 2.

For the cheap ones, it seems part of the problem is that capital-onlyness does not reduce the price. Circle Master is the most cost-effective mage in the game before your modifications, so that might not be as bad as it looks.

Also, quite a many of them have priestly magic. I think 13 of these 20 units have priestly magic. Asmeg Jarl might have some, but Troll King, Circle Master, Pan, Navigator, Capricorn and Alchemist do not. Others do have atleast some, IIRC. You might want to check out holy magic again.

[johan osterman]

Some of the units that your formula report as overpriced are intentionally overpriced for thematic reasons, such as the Lizard King. I imagine people still buy him occasionally just for the fanaticism. Others, as Endoperez pointed out have special abilitites, Pan has autosummon, Niefel Jarl Cold Aura etc. Among the underpriced some are cheaper because they are rare independents, such as the circle master.

If one were to put any stock into your formula the most conspicous offender is probably the Sidhe champion, since he besides being underpriced has a few extra abilities. On the other hand he is home site only.

[Kristoffer O]

Sacred troops and priests have 1/2 upkeep and are generally given costs 25-50% higher. This might explain some of the worst buys.

Sidhe Lord and Sidhe Champ seems to be way overpriced with your formula. Why is the sidhe lord more expensive than the hangadrott? The hangadrott is better in every way except that he can't wear shoes IIRC.

[Saber Cherry]

I don't think a mage formula is any more relevant to Niefel Jarls as to Ice Devils. They aren't mages so much as supercombattants with free magic paths... that can go underwater...

Jarls and Ice Devils are similar, but nobody thinks of Ice Devils as mages.

[sushiboat]

There are some database errors in the magic paths. Oops! The errors are
sporadic, so I doubt that the formula will change much. I will repost after I
correct the problem.

[sushiboat]

Here is the corrected version.

Cost = (2.7 * MagicRes) + (.6 * TacMove) + (.7 * RegLdr) +
(29.4 * FullRand) + (37.2 * ElemRand) + (26.9 * SorcRand) + (37.5 * Blood) +
(30.6 * Death) + (32.8 * Earth) + (33.2 * Fire) + (37.8 * Nature) +
(31.8 * Astral) + (33.2 * Water) + (16.3 * Holy) + (30.8 * Unholy) +
(2.5 * Att_Def) + (12.9 * Air_Prec) + (11.0 * HP_Str)

Att_Def = ((Att - 9.4) / 2.1) + ((Def - 9.5) / 3.2)

Air_Prec = ((Air - .3) / .7) + ((Prec - 10.6) / 1.9)

HP_Str = ((HP - 12.8) / 8.1) + ((Str - 10.5) / 3.2)


Here are the mismatch lists. The lists changed a little, so I also include the
ones that dropped off.

Code:

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Mage            Real_Price   Formula



Starspawn            150     294

Sorceress            110     200

Centaur Hierophant    80     166

Asmeg Jarl           160     241

Troll King           150     229

Master 5 Elem        190     269

Witch Doctor          80     144

Sidhe Champion       140     203

Amber Clan Mage      160     220

Circle Master        100     160



Garnet Priestess     100     153

Theurg               150     210

*Sidhe Lord          280     274

Grand Master         270     317





Warrior Mage         200     142

Pan                  350     290

Hydromancer          180     117

Starspawn            280     216

Navigator            180     102

High Priest of Sun   390     306

Lizard King          280     179

Capricorn            350     247

Anathemant Dragon    360     232

Alchemist            300     122



*Arch Theurg         380     339

Niefel Jarl          500     443

*Hangadrott          400     361





* These had database errors earlier.

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[Endoperez]

Since there is a Starspawn in both lists, maybe it would be better for you to make sure which one is which... I haven't played R'lyeh in a long time, and can't remember which one is cheaper. Also, which Sorceress is that on the upper list?

[Scott Hebert]

Kristoffer O said:
Sacred troops and priests have 1/2 upkeep and are generally given costs 25-50% higher. This might explain some of the worst buys.

As much as I hate to disagree with one of the game developers...

Using your own formulae, Sacred Commanders and Holy Priests have no extra gold cost.

Sidhe Lord and Sidhe Champ seems to be way overpriced with your formula. Why is the sidhe lord more expensive than the hangadrott? The hangadrott is better in every way except that he can't wear shoes IIRC.

At a guess, because the Sidhe Lord has Air and Nature magic. The IW formula assumes equal paths have equal costs. Sushi's doesn't.

As for my own thoughts, most of these have small path levels. If I read the formula correctly, the path costs do not follow IW's formula, which reduces multiple paths at low levels.

The Circle Master can be removed, as it is not an offender. He should cost about 160; in fact, at 100 he is the most under-costed mage in the game, on a percentage basis.

The Master of the 5 Elements is the most obvious mage that I base my comments on.

[Scott Hebert]

Again, Sushi, the issue that I'm seeing with your cost analysis is that higher path levels aren't being given their properly higher costs. According to IW, magic paths have progressively increasing costs, and you have a simpler 'cost-per-level' scale.

If you go by IW costing, 2 in a single path is worth almost twice that of 1 in 2 paths.

About the only other concern I have is: where does the High Seraph fall?