Rebalance Mod game now running on a 24h timer.

[Saber Cherry]

100% longbow armies leave you vulnerable to cavalry and archers - not to mention that they're quite expensive. It's true that with ap, they're much better than base Doms II pure-longbow armies. But the rest of Man's lineup is also better, with possible exception of the Wardens, who were already good... and building purely longbows and mages, you'll have lots of resources left over every turn, which you'll probably wish you had used later on when capitol resources are limiting...

I'm not an expert playing Man, but I only build pure armies when playing Ulm, and Abysia. Speaking of which, I wonder if Abysia's units are too homogeneous? Does anyone else build armies purely of a single unit type when playing Abysia?

[Huzurdaddi]

Saber Cherry said:
No other mundane melee weapons are AP, and AP is pretty rare even for magical weapons. Lances are not AP, despite the description. Unfortunately, Action Points and Armor Piercing have the same abbreviation... lances get a damage bonus based on the unit's speed, and kill things easily because they do massive damage, not because they pierce armor.

NO [censored]! I've never understood why Ghost riders do tons of damage on their charge. If figured that sure it's AP but still it should not do the kind of crazy damage that it seems to do. This makes total sense. Longdead horsemen have tons of AP so the damage they do must be huge. Now it makes sense. Thanks! I don't know if it changes anything wrt. my tactics but now I understand what is going on.

Ighalli said:
Yeah, my armies arnt 100% longbowmen... Maybe I'm expanding too slow, but at least I'm taking no casualties from indies, so it's a tradeoff. I don't play Man all that often, so I'm just experimenting really.

Well I don't know if I would make my armies 100% longbow men. During my tests I had a little chaff in front and in time converted the chaff to vine ogres. But generally my armies were composed of primarly archers. To pay for this I went after farms which was easy to do as the longbowmen could take HC and/or Knights with ease.

quantum_mechani said:
I could write an AAR for this game, though I played Pan quite a bit different with white centaurs getting such a boost.

Whoa. Light lance. More attack. Lower cost. Sounds *very* good. What bless did you go with? Given the new data ( at least to me ) on how lances work I would figure that a W9 blessing would crush. A F9 would work well also since the unit has hooves.

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
Longdead horsemen have tons of AP so the damage they do must be huge.

Longdead horseman have a spear and a 10 damage hoof. So they have two attacks, one with 13 damage and one with 10 damage. Knights of the Unholy Sepulchre are the only undead with lances.

[Huzurdaddi]

Graeme Dice said:

Longdead horseman have a spear and a 10 damage hoof. So they have two attacks, one with 13 damage and one with 10 damage. Knights of the Unholy Sepulchre are the only undead with lances.

Just took a look at a replay and the undead horsemen summoned via Ghost Riders have the following weapons: light lance, hoof. This is a replay using Zen's mod so I don't know if this is different from the base game but I doubt it.

Like I said this finally explains, at least to me, why ghost riders crush so much. With 25 AP I wonder what kind of damage that charge does ( 25+3? If so, wow, ouch. ).

[Saber Cherry]

Huzurdaddi said:
Whoa. Light lance. More attack. Lower cost. Sounds *very* good. What bless did you go with? Given the new data ( at least to me ) on how lances work I would figure that a W9 blessing would crush. A F9 would work well also since the unit has hooves.

Ooops, I think I boosted White Centaurs way too much I was trying to keep them equivalent to Black Centaurs, which I was pricing to be affordable even though CW has almost no money, but that was a bad idea... W9 would bring them up to 21 defense, 22 hp, 12 protection, 13 strength, 12 attack, 16 mor, 14 mr, with 3 attacks per turn (average)... and stealthy, healing, 3 strat moves, forestry, all for 60 gold and 2g/turn. Quite a powerhouse... they'd probably kill most SC pretenders easily.

[Huzurdaddi]

Saber Cherry said:

Ooops, I think I boosted White Centaurs way too much I was trying to keep them equivalent to Black Centaurs, which I was pricing to be affordable even though CW has almost no money, but that was a bad idea... W9 would bring them up to 21 defense, 22 hp, 12 protection, 13 strength, 12 attack, 16 mor, 14 mr, with 3 attacks per turn (average)... and stealthy, healing, 3 strat moves, forestry, all for 60 gold and 2g/turn. Quite a powerhouse... they'd probably kill most SC pretenders easily.

Oh I whipped up a test game to see how the W9 bless would work. Not bad. They are not unkillable but they do a decent job against Indep-9 HC. And they seem to have a pretty decent charge ( I tried about 5 test cases and on average lost 2 units against HC indep-9 provinces ).

Sadly the beserk does not work well with the W9 bless ( as your defence goes down after getting hit ). I guess I should try out the F9 bless to see how that works ( it usually works dandy on units with a hoof attack ).

A F9W9 bless would be fun to try out ( but they are darn expensive ).

[quantum_mechani]

Huzurdaddi said:

Oh I whipped up a test game to see how the W9 bless would work. Not bad. They are not unkillable but they do a decent job against Indep-9 HC. And they seem to have a pretty decent charge ( I tried about 5 test cases and on average lost 2 units against HC indep-9 provinces ).

Sadly the beserk does not work well with the W9 bless ( as your defence goes down after getting hit ). I guess I should try out the F9 bless to see how that works ( it usually works dandy on units with a hoof attack ).

A F9W9 bless would be fun to try out ( but they are darn expensive ).

Yes, I'm using f9 bless, I could have gone w9 as well, but I've played basically every nation with sacred troops using that bless. They may be a little over powered, but given that they are capital only, and only around the power of vans, I'm not sure they are that bad.

[Graeme Dice]

Saber Cherry said:
Does anyone else build armies purely of a single unit type when playing Abysia?

Lava warriors and morningstar infantry are pretty much all I build.

[Saber Cherry]

Graeme Dice said:

Lava warriors and morningstar infantry are pretty much all I build.

I only build Morningstar Infantry. Do you have any ideas on how to make the lineup interesting? And do you find the improved, cheaper salamanders or cheaper humanbreds tempting?

[Arralen]

What about Marignon / Patrick ???

He's the last one to do his turn the 4th or 5th time in a row, if he did his turns at all ...