New hero abilities - suggest them all!

[Chazar]

Mountaineer: gives all units under his command a temporary mountain survival skill.

Hmm, seems like I did not capture the heroic idea of this thread... But hey, maybe the survival skills will become incredibly useful in DomIII, who knows? Otherwise the Mountaineer might also reduce supply/upkeep costs when located in mountain provinces...

[silhouette]

Saber Cherry said:
A steal ability would awesome, especially when dealing with pesky SC's.

I suggested something like this as a new stealth commander orders in the Wishlist thread:

Oooh, how about two additional stealth commander orders...

- pilfer from lab: Allows a chance to take a random item from the enemy magic item treasury in the province (or gems?). If you fail you fight the province defense.
- Pickpocket from commander: Allows a chance to take a random misc slot item from a commander (or gems?). If you fail you fight [the commander and bodyguards | the commander and all his troops | the commander and troops plus province defence | all enemy forces ?]

Taking an item equipped from someones hand or head is pretty hard if you want to remain stealthy, but misc slot seems like good "pickpocket"-able items.

Sill

[FrankTrollman]

I would like a pathfinding ability, where the leader can move himself and his army a longer and longer distance over more and more hostile terrain on the world map.

Or an ability that made you good with armor and reduced your encumberance (eliminating the doubled casting encumberance at the normal rate). That would be really good on a warrior mage.

An Oratory ability that made you count as some level of Preacing each turn. It could start off as a 1 point preaching every turn (regardless of what you were doing), and eventually it would become some sort of massive temple check if you stayed on the hall of fame long enough.

A resistance skill, that gives you resistance to Shock, Fire, Cold, and Poison would be nice. It might even give you Acid Resistance just for added hilarity.

A Necromancy skill, where you get some Undead Leadership and every other level you get a point of unholy pristing could be cool. You should make sure that it never spawns on people who already are unholy priests (because the last thing we need is an Unholy Priest 10 making Lictors).

-Frank

[Saber Cherry]

FrankTrollman said:
A Necromancy skill, where you get some Undead Leadership and every other level you get a point of unholy pristing could be cool. You should make sure that it never spawns on people who already are unholy priests (because the last thing we need is an Unholy Priest 10 making Lictors).

-Frank

Necromancy like in HOMM would be awesome! X% of units killed in battle return as undead (soulless warriors). It should probably only be an ability for units that already have undead leadership... you don't want Cardinal Carmont automatically resurrecting the dead, unable to control himself. Ideally, Dominions III will allow "Undeadness" to be an ability (like mindlessness or amphibiousness) that can just be assigned to any unit, giving it a purple/green pallete shift, -4 MR, -4 ATT, -6 DEF, +2 STR, +50% HP, -60% AP, 50 morale, 3 strat moves, neverheals, resist cold, resist poison, vulnerability to spells that target undead. Then you could have a huge variety of undead troops!

[FrankTrollman]

There are a number of hero abilities from MoO2, MoM and HoMM that could be profitably put into Dominions:

Necromancy was pretty sweet (x% of enemies slain on the battlefield came back as undead troops under your control). I'd still like this to grant undead leadership, rather than requiring it.

Estates/Wealth: Character no longer requires upkeep and actually generates gold just for being around.

Instructor: All units under character's control gain bonus XP every turn.

Spy Network: (based on Galactic Lore) Character gives spying reports on a variable number of random provinces around the world each turn.

Lawmaster: (based on Telepath) Character gets a patrol bonus. The province she's in is also patrolled by a variable amount every turn, causing spies and unrest to get rounded up automatically.

Spymaster: Character becomes increasingly stealthy and gains the Spy ability. This doesn't really need anything else because there is stuff like the Black Heart that makes getting a decent hero with stealth totally the win.

Tactical Genius: Character's team gets the first turn when attacking. Also grants a variable morale bonus to troops nearby.

Medicine: Chance to heal battle afflictions in this army every turn.

Commando: Generates additional Province Defense troops every battle as the attacker or defender.

Famous Bureacrat: Counts as additional Admin rating in whatever province the character is currently in.

Master Smith: Available only to spellcasters, grants a variable Forge Bonus. Character generates a variable number of resources.

Master Ritualist: Available only to spellcasters, grants a cost reduction when casting ritual spells.

Pathfinding: Grants terrain movement abilities to troops under character's control. Also raises overland movement by a variable amount (starts at +0), at higher levels also grants seamanship.

Resurrection: Non-undead, non-lifeless beings who die in your army have a variable percentage chance to be raised from the dead at the end of the battle if you win.

Demonology: a pile of Imps of variable size shows up at the beginning of each battle to fight for you. You get a variable amount of undead leadership out of the deal.

Fairy Blood: a pile of Sprites shows up at the beginning of each battle to fight for you. You get a variable amount of magic leadership out of the deal.

Sorcery: Mages with at least one pick of sorcery magic only. Your spell penetration goes up for every sorcery spell you cast.

Elementalism: Mages with at least one pick of elemental magic only. Your elemental spells inflict a variable percentage of extra damage.

Summoning: A random elemental of variable size permanently joins your side every round. You gain magical leadership.

Charm: A percentage of independents/mercenaries who run away (and would die) permanently join your side if you win the battle.

Artillery: A variable amount of catapult attacks rain down on enemy positions over the course of every battle. The character gains a Siege bonus.

Luck: "Luck" is cast before combat a variable number of times.

Logistics: (actually based on Farming Leader) Character generates variable number of supplies.

Reverse Engineering: (based on Eagle Eye) Chance of adding a spell to your spells known if it is cast by the other side in a battle the character is in, or if it is cast overland into a province that the character is in. Also gives a chance of learning a global enchantment that is cast.

-Frank

[Chazar]

Truly interesting stuff!

I wish that the chances for heroic abilities would also depend on the class, i.e. each commander schould be assigned to a class (wizard, priest, warrior) and a wizard who gets e.g. "thoughness" will get a reroll, so that "thoughness" on wizards becomes rather rare...

[FrankTrollman]

Certainly one relatively easy way to program that would be to have each ability have something thatads to its chances of showing up. So the more MR you have, the bigger a chance you have of getting Iron Will. The more hit points you have, the more chance you have of getting Toughness. And so on and so on.

That way Extraordinary Researcher s never going to happen on an Ulmish Commander, but has a noticeable chance of showing up on a Wizard - your number of chances to get the ability is simply your Research value.

This way, everyone has a chance of getting the basic common ones, because everyone has MR, Strength, Attack, and Defense scores, everybody has some number of hit points. Furthermore, this way the game doesn't automatically shunt a Queen of Water into not getting Toughness just because technically she is a mage.

Some of the weirder abilities can have one chance of showing up basically and then add some obscure amount. So every 25 full points of undead leadership gets you one more chance to get Necromancy. Every path of blood you have gets you an additional chance to get Demonology. But these skills would show up occassionally on other characters as well.

So your chance of getting any particular ability would be:

(Number of Chances to get that ability)
-------------------------
(Total Number of Chances for all possible abilities)

And everyone is walking in there with a bunch of chances for the standards: Toughness (hit points), Heroic Strength (strength), Extraordinary Precision (Presicion), Lightning Reflexes (Defense)...

And some people are walking in there with chances for weird powers: Sorcery (total paths in Sorcery), Great Wealth (total upkeep cost, rounded down), Battle Bellow (total kills), Extraordinary Researcher (total Research), etc. etc.

-Frank

[Sandman]

Wheeeeee, more suggestions, ripped off from assorted similar games, or just made up by me:

Enchanter, Conjurer, Thaumaturg, etc: Casts the corresponding spell school with improved effect.

Armourer, Offense, Archery, etc: Shamelessly ripped from HOMM3, or Warcraft 3. Leaders with these skills give their units a hefty bonus. This would be a nice way to beef up the mundane units and commanders versus magical stuff.

Chosen: The hero is rendered immune to curse, horror mark and certain afflictions.

Creature Specialist: Creatures of a certain type get a boost when commanded by this commander.

Spell Specialist: Spell X has an improved effect when cast by this commander. This is already in the game for the Vine Men/Ogre spells, and a few others.

Crusader: The hero gains sailing, siege skills, supplies and perma-blessing.

Conquistador: The hero gains sailing, supplies, pillaging and patrolling. And spreads disease among the natives.

Raider: This ability allows ground commanders to initiate an attack from two or more squares away, like flying units.

Weaponsmaster: The commander can replace the weapons wielded by troops under their command with weapons from the province the army is currently occupying. This process costs resources.

Pilgrim: This hero gains increased experience and skills for each temple or holy site visited at least once.

Explorer: As above, but for each previously unentered (by your forces) province.

Wanderer: As above, but instead of stats, this hero gains research skills for each lab visited. Might need to be capped at some point. Same for all the 'traveller' skills.

Scavenger: The ability allows a modest % of gold and gems to be recovered from destroyed units in the aftermath of a battle. Enemy items are very likely to be recovered.

Freelancer: This hero can summon a mercenary camp and freely trade units for gold, gems or other creatures.

Forge Scrying: A unit using this skill can detect any magical items forged anywhere in the world (but not items gained in other ways). At high levels, the forging nation can be determined, rather than guessed at. At divine levels, enemy item stocks can be observed.

Incorruptible Essence: Anyone trying to use lifedrain techniques on this hero will take enormous damage, or, in certain cases, be mind-enslaved to the 'victim'.

Slayer: Grants substantial bonuses when fighting against certain classes of enemy; skeletons, devils, trolls etc.

Guerilla: Allows the hero and/or commanded troops to join the battle from the side or even behind. Some measure of stealthyness should be needed to use this skill.

Partisan: This hero can recruit troops from enemy-held provinces. The troops must be stealthy, of course. Maybe not high-level national stuff.

Terminator: If this assassin manages to kill his target quickly enough, the enemy will not even get to view a battle (and thus be unaware of the assassin's nationality or equipment). They just get a message saying that their unit has vanished without a trace.

Pioneer: This unit can perform the command 'colonise' which greatly boosts the growth rate of under-populated provinces.

Initiative: This commander attacks so quickly that the enemy doesn't have enough time to form up properly. All enemy units are slightly displaced from their intended positions.

Smuggler: Grants sailing, stealth and the ability to steal gold from enemy provinces that are adjacent to yours or one sea province away. It's twice as effective in coastal and river provinces.

[Saber Cherry]

Sandman said:
Wheeeeee, more suggestions, ripped off from assorted similar games, or just made up by me:

Some of these would make really good spells or normal abilities, too.

Enchanter, Conjurer, Thaumaturg, etc: Casts the corresponding spell school with improved effect.

A great ability for the untis that are actually NAMED Enchanter, Conjurer, Thaumaturg, and etc

Chosen: The hero is rendered immune to curse, horror mark and certain afflictions.

Sounds good - hard to say how it could improve over time, though.

Raider: This ability allows ground commanders to initiate an attack from two or more squares away, like flying units.

This would also make a good special abiilty for leaders of barbarians, tribal cavalry, and BK Tien Chi.

Weaponsmaster: The commander can replace the weapons wielded by troops under their command with weapons from the province the army is currently occupying. This process costs resources.

I'm not sure this would work very well... Giving all troops under the commander a a gradual increase in weapon damage (+1, +2, ... after a long, long time, +3) might be possible, but replacing weapons would wreak havok with 2-handed weapons, mixed troop types, unit icons, and so forth.

Pilgrim: This hero gains increased experience and skills for each temple or holy site visited at least once.

Especially for "visiting" enemy temples I like this one. Wierd to say "I'm a heroic pilgrim, world-reknowned for my pligrimage," though. Perhaps certain sacred units (like flagellants) could get a special "Pilgrim" ability, gaining +3xp per turn while at a holy site and another +1 xp per turn while at a temple, and +10xp for desecrating and burning an enemy temple... much easier to implement.

Scavenger: The ability allows a modest % of gold and gems to be recovered from destroyed units in the aftermath of a battle. Enemy items are very likely to be recovered.

Great ability for huge battles, though not very heroic-sounding Treasure Hunter sounds much nicer!

Incorruptible Essence: Anyone trying to use lifedrain techniques on this hero will take enormous damage, or, in certain cases, be mind-enslaved to the 'victim'.

This would make a great magical spell: "Soul Poison: renders the life-force of friendly units in the affected area toxic to creatures that feed on souls. Any lifedrain attacks will do equal damage to both victim and attacker." Or a special ability to certain fodder troops, like Ghouls and Crossbreeds. If it could be deployed en mass rather than be a heroic ability, it would be a great defense against Lifesteal supercombattants.

A holy spell "Sanctify Blood" could similarly give a holy essence to the blood of sacred units, that damages undead and demonic life-draining attackers. Sounds overly specific, but it would be extremely useful in practice.

Guerilla: Allows the hero and/or commanded troops to join the battle from the side or even behind. Some measure of stealthyness should be needed to use this skill.

Quite a killer ability! How about this: the commander can position stealthy units under his command over a larger positioning map (the green thing you position troops on) than normal commanders. The higher the ability grows, the bigger the positioning map, such that at a very high level the troop-positioning map encompasses the entire real battlefield.

Partisan: This hero can recruit troops from enemy-held provinces. The troops must be stealthy, of course. Maybe not high-level national stuff.

Cool... The gold/resource budget could grow with the skill.

Terminator: If this assassin manages to kill his target quickly enough, the enemy will not even get to view a battle (and thus be unaware of the assassin's nationality or equipment). They just get a message saying that their unit has vanished without a trace.

My favorite so far!

Pioneer: This unit can perform the command 'colonise' which greatly boosts the growth rate of under-populated provinces.

Just like Heroic Stamina, but not quite as dirty...

Smuggler:Grants sailing, stealth and the ability to steal gold from enemy provinces that are adjacent to yours or one sea province away. It's twice as effective in coastal and river provinces.

This is pretty cool too! Sounds like a good ability for indy Smugglers, recruitable commanders from a level 0 coastal water site, "Smuggler's Cove."

[Sandman]

Some of these would make really good spells or normal abilities, too.

Yeah, I'm just brainstorming.

Sounds good - hard to say how it could improve over time, though.

That's true, Chosen is a nice ability, but not a Hall of Fame one. If I had to choose, I'd probably give it as a reward to human heroes who defeat mighty monsters.

This would also make a good special abiilty for leaders of barbarians, tribal cavalry, and BK Tien Chi.

Absolutely. The Raider ability would make hordes of horsemen something to be feared. It should probably be given to BK, and any Arabic or Ottoman themed nations that turn up.

I'm not sure this would work very well... Giving all troops under the commander a a gradual increase in weapon damage (+1, +2, ... after a long, long time, +3) might be possible, but replacing weapons would wreak havok with 2-handed weapons, mixed troop types, unit icons, and so forth.

True enough, I just wish there was a way to upgrade national troops. Another idea I had (for Ulm) was upgrading their armour as they advance in Construction. At Con-10, their armour would be super-strong, almost weightless and ultra-flexible.

Quite a killer ability! How about this: the commander can position stealthy units under his command over a larger positioning map (the green thing you position troops on) than normal commanders. The higher the ability grows, the bigger the positioning map, such that at a very high level the troop-positioning map encompasses the entire real battlefield.

The way I imagined it was that the guerilla troops would not be placed on the map at all; they'd just be shunted to a kind of nether-zone of upper flank, lower flank or rear. When the battle begins, they're not in a coherent formation, just in a line like wolves summoned with howl. If you give them 'hold' orders, they won't appear on the battlefield until they're ordered to attack or fire or whatever. Their irregular formation creates a realistic limitation for this ability.

Cool... The gold/resource budget could grow with the skill.

It is a cool ability. I like the idea that the gold/resource budget grows. Whilst the troops recruitable (woodsmen, villains, vaetti, satyrs, other rare units) would be limited although still potentially useful, being able to recruit scouts in enemy territory would be very handy. And with spies and assassins you could create an ever-growing, self-sufficient insurgency...although you may have the strange situation of avoiding taking an enemy fort so your partisan can continue to recruit their stealthy units.

This is pretty cool too! Sounds like a good ability for indy Smugglers, recruitable commanders from a level 0 coastal water site, "Smuggler's Cove."

I'd like to see it as part of a revamped CotS Marignon, or a full-on sailing nation in Dom3. It should probably cause a wee bit of unrest. Oh, and spells which prevent sailing would prevent overseas smuggling from working as well.

You could really rake in the cash if you were well set up to exploit this ability. By taking control of an island, you could set it up as a smuggling base, sending smugglers to a dozen or more overseas provinces, with all the loot being siphoned through the island. Such islands would be very valuable... worth fighting over, either to deactivate the smuggling rings permanently, or set up your own.