How do you defend against an Abysian devil rush?

[Saber Cherry]

quantum_mechani said:

'Attack Rear' only works as intended about 25% of the time, and depends a lot on how big the enemy army is and how it is deployed. Setting them to guard a flying commander, and the commander to (hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold) Attack Rear works better. But the best way is if they have archers and you use the attack archers command.

I suspect (but I am not sure) that putting "Attack Rear" troops farther forward makes them attack closer to the enemy rear. "Hold and Attack : Rear" also gives the enemy troopers a chance to leave behind their vulnerable mages and priests.

[CUnknown]

I just wanted to chime in in defense of my favorite faction and say that Ulm wouldn't have much trouble dealing with a devil rush, at least not more than anyone else. It's called Blade Wind, people!

[ioticus]

I fought his main force at one of my watch towers and I can confirm he had 10 Devils and 50 Lava Warriors at turn 20. I did destroy most of his force (his Vampire Queen and 4 Lavas survived), but at great cost to my self. I lost all 9 Mammoths and 67 (of 74) wingless and Raptors, and 2 Seraphs. The only thing that really saved me is the Mammoths attacking his rear which killed 3 of his commanders and my Pretender, a strong Prince of Death, casting death spells (though he did get a "weakened" affliction in this battle.) As expected, my Raptors committed suicide by attacking his Lavas directly. They simply evaporated. I must learn to use them correctly. I don't think I can hold out. I'm on a small map and I'm sure he's cranking out at least 1 Devil per turn and who knows how many Lavas.

By the way, my Pretender kept casting Fear at the Berserk Lavas (morale 99). Does that do any good or is it a case of poor casting AI?

[Ironhawk]

The best way to use Raptors is not to recruit them. They are trash units and your gold is better spent elswhere. Spend it instead on Seraphs and Caelian Archers. Speaking of, why werent there any archers in the battle you just mentioned?? Archer Mob + Wind Guide + Seraphs should be pretty effective. Anyway, leave the melee combat to your Wingless + Mammoths or some cheap chaff like SC and others have suggested.

ioticus said:
I fought his main force at one of my watch towers and I can confirm he had 10 Devils and 50 Lava Warriors at turn 20. I did destroy most of his force (his Vampire Queen and 4 Lavas survived), but at great cost to my self. I lost all 9 Mammoths and 67 (of 74) wingless and Raptors, and 2 Seraphs. The only thing that really saved me is the Mammoths attacking his rear which killed 3 of his commanders and my Pretender, a strong Prince of Death, casting death spells (though he did get a "weakened" affliction in this battle.) As expected, my Raptors committed suicide by attacking his Lavas directly. They simply evaporated. I must learn to use them correctly. I don't think I can hold out. I'm on a small map and I'm sure he's cranking out at least 1 Devil per turn and who knows how many Lavas.

By the way, my Pretender kept casting Fear at the Berserk Lavas (morale 99). Does that do any good or is it a case of poor casting AI?

[ioticus]

Ironhawk said:
The best way to use Raptors is not to recruit them. They are trash units and your gold is better spent elswhere. Spend it instead on Seraphs and Caelian Archers. Speaking of, why werent there any archers in the battle you just mentioned??

I didn't recruit archers because they seemed pretty useless vs. the heavily armored Abysians in my test games vs. the AI. They would fire a few volleys and then get toasted in close combat.

[Saber Cherry]

Yeah, I avoid using archers against units with 12+ protection... longbows and crossbows are much more cost effective. Javelins would work, too, considering that any infantry up against the Lava Warriors will die in one hit, but Jav infantry will at least get to toss a couple javelins before they engage in melee.

[FrankTrollman]

Any infantry is going to have a hard time damaging the Lava Warriors and is generally going to die in short order as well.

That's why you want to keep your units from "bunching" in order to maximize the amount of retail (rather than wholesale) killing your enemies can inflict on your side.

And that's where archers shine. They don't move, so they don't clump up and die. Your leaders are going to fly off as soon as your troops all break, so you want to maximize the amount of separate units of crap. And you want to make them stay separate.

Blizzard Warriors aren't there to cause casualties, they are there to draw fire and keep your enemy from killing or routing your Harabs.

-Frank

-Frank

[Ironhawk]

Archers are not very effective vs heavy armor, no. But your post is about how to defend vs a Devil Rush. Devils have only 8 prot and thus can be wounded relatively easily by the short bow. On top of this fact the tactical command Fire Flyers should precisely target the Devils out from all the masses of Abysians.

This said, don't completely rule out the effectiveness of shortbows vs armored opponents. Particularly those without shields, like lava warriors. You won't make many kills but you can cause a lot of wounds which, if the unit in question does not beserk (can't recall if lava warriors do), will damage the enemy squad's morale. An excellent thing to do to abysians, given that if they rout, you will massacare them all due to thier slow speed.

Also, where are you placing your archers such that they only get off "a few volleys"?

ioticus said:
I didn't recruit archers because they seemed pretty useless vs. the heavily armored Abysians in my test games vs. the AI. They would fire a few volleys and then get toasted in close combat.

[quantum_mechani]

Ironhawk said:
if the unit in question does not beserk (can't recall if lava warriors do),

They do go berzerk.

[ioticus]

Ironhawk said:

Also, where are you placing your archers such that they only get off "a few volleys"?

I generally place archers in the rear or on the flanks and forward a little bit.