Newb+Multiplayer.

[BigDaddy]

Once you go to Vine Ogres you'll never go back. . .

[Zooko]

No, no! Forget this SuperCombatant, Lightning Bolt, Relief, and Vine Ogre stuff! Take the Last of the Tuatha theme and a pretender with 9 Nature and 9 Earth! Then recruit nothing except for Daoine Sidhe.

[quantum_mechani]

Zooko said:
No, no! Forget this SuperCombatant, Lightning Bolt, Relief, and Vine Ogre stuff! Take the Last of the Tuatha theme and a pretender with 9 Nature and 9 Earth! Then recruit nothing except for Daoine Sidhe.

Fire 9 and water 9 work about 5x as well.

[ioticus]

Massed Vine Ogres is the way to go. Get yourself a few Ivy Kings summoning 4 Vine Ogres each for a cost of 1 nature gem each.

[Endoperez]

Super combatants can destroy whole armies. Mix as many of the following ingredients to get a working SC:

cold/fire/lighning/poison immunity
damage shield: breath of winter, fire shield, soul vortex
high defence
high protection
lots of hitpoints
high attack (18+)
high defence (18+)
quickness
luck
etherealness
life-draining weapon (gives you life and removes fatique)
regeneration or way to heal afflictions
ability to regain hitpoints during battle
ability to remove fatique during battle

Good spells for a melee SC:
Luck, Body Ethereal, Astral Weapon, Astral Shield (probably) - but beware Magic Duel!
Quickness, Breath of Winter
Fire Shield
Stone/Iron Skin, Iron Will, Invulnerability,
Mirror Image, Mistform
Personal Regeneration
Soul Vortex, Drain Life (helps to get some fatique back after other buffing spells have been cast)
EDIT: Magic Resistance! Charm is not good, Soul Slay is not good, Enslave Mind is not good... even Paralyze is bad enough!

I haven't tried using a SC against enemies, so this list isn't anywhere near perfect.


Relief helps your mages cast spells longer and, as Man, you should use it with your mage armies.
Wrathful Skies can destroy whole armies as long as you have few lightning-immune units or commanders making the battle last longer.
Lightning Strike is very powerful. Orb Lightning is powerful but dangerous, because it has very short range.
Eagle Eyes (Alteration 1) lets your mages smite your enemies very fast!
EDIT: Charm! A great spell that can give you enemy mages or even SCs!

Man can easily summon lots of Vine Ogres. Take a N2 mage, add Thistle Mace and Ivy Crown and you get lots of non-routing high-str critters with absurd amounts of hitpoints.


Try experimenting in single player a little, but I think using Vine Men/Ogres (Conjuration 3, Construction 2 IIRC) and Longbows lets you conquer indy provinces fast enough. After that, research some Evocation so you get few lightning-based attack spells. When you get your first Super Combatant (probably Conjuration 6+), you should already have forged him some items (Construction 4 or 6) and researched Alteration for buffing spells. If you are having troubles somewhere, experiment with Call of the Wilds/Winds, both can flank enemy and harass their archers or take up knights' lances. After that you have more choices as you can already summon Lamia Queens.

EDIT:
Storms let your mages to cast more powerful lightning spells (Storm Power), but weakens your longbowmen (only about half of the archers are able to fire). Storms also let only few spesific Strom critters fly. You should still be careful near Caelum and Strom Devils, as well as Air Elementals, but otherwise your mages should be quite safe.

You should change into mage armies when nearing the mid-game, but I have no experience about either mage-armies or mid-game, so you'll have to ask some more or learn the hard way.

[Ironhawk]

RibbonBlue said:
It seems to me that an SC unless it relied on the types of magic that hit every one the battle field and deal dmg to them all,unless it had that a SC would have trouble fighting the troops that have high morale enmass. Like vine men. If an Sc was fighting a mass of vine men, it would have trouble killing them because it can only hit a few a turn. If you had like 50+ of em it would seem pretty easy to overwhelm a SC.

Ribbon the key to army-killer SC's is lifedrain. In dom2 Lifedraining weapons are EXTREMELY powerful becuase they not only drain HP from enemies into the SC (to above thier max hp!) but they also remove fatigue from the SC at the same time. In this fashion, an SC armed with a lifedrain weapon, respectable HP, prot, attack/def skill, can defeat a... basically an unlimited number of normal troops.

Thier effectiveness can be further increased by area of effect items (like horror helmets) and shield items (like charcoal shields). For your own enrichment, test out one of the common SC chasis, like a Bane or an Ice Devil. Give it a lifedrain weapon, maybe a speed item and a shield item. Then send it in against some mortal armies and see the carnage it wrecks.

[Chazar]

How does "Man" summon a suitable SC chassis fast enough with the national mages lacking both Blood & Death? (Let us suppose for the sake of the discussion that there are no suitable Independent Mages (except sages maybe) around and that our pretender does not have any skill in blood nor death either.)

Just stick with a Firbolg (but where do the lifedrain weapons come from then)? Or is summoning Lamia Queens a must-do, then forging death boosters and hoping for a death gem income via castings of dark knowledge to summon death-scs and forging lifedrain weapons? Would that be fast enough? Or rather trying to use scouts and blood-sages for hunting and forging a hellsword after empowering maybe?

[Taqwus]

IronHawk --

Actually, he's right. The turn limit means that you can't kill an unlimited number of troops, barring a nasty battlefield-wide effect -- and if neither side can flee, the SC can be killed through sheer weight of numbers.

Simplest example would be any SC with the Unquenched Sword against a huge non-fireproof army. The heat will probably render the army unconscious, but not kill them, so they'll remain on the battlefield without running into favorite death-shield/area effects like fire shields or Soul Vortex. The SC will be berserked by the sword, so he won't run. If the enemy army goes unconscious, and the SC can't kill them fast enough, he'll be autokilled.

[Ironhawk]

Well, I was just telling Ribbon to test out the SC concept in a test game. Didnt have to specifically be Man. But yes if you were playing Man, the Firbolg would be the most accessible SC chasis for your national mages. In order to forge lifedrainers, I would probably just put some Death on my pretender and search for death sites to get the gems and forge Wraith Swords. Too much effort to set up a blood economy with a nation like Man.

As for SC's being killed by the combat turn limit. Yes, sure that can happen... anything can be killed by the limit. But its a very extreme case and, honestly, not something that a newbie should even be concerned about.