Plasma vs cap ship missle

[Phoenix-D]

Well, that would also apply to WMGs, Hellbores, and the like. Besides, just make and used a dedicated anti-fighter WP.

Phoenix-D

[Baron Munchausen]

As they are defined in the default game, Plasma missiles are not really worth the extra research cost. They are a little bit faster than standard missiles, but not much, and they have a slightly greater range but as others have pointed out their damage declines at extreme range. I have modded them in my techs to use the "Quad Damage to Shields" damage type. This makes them actually different from standard missiles and in some circumstances a really devastating weapon.

But they still suffer the problems that everyone else here has pointed out. A human can easily counter them by adding more PDC to his ship designs or just building dedicated PDC ships to escort his direct-fire warships. I've modded the AIs in my game to use more PDC and when these ships form up into a tight formation they can be quite effective even without 'dedicated' PDC ships in the mix. I've fired volleys of 30-50 missiles at ship formations containing only 15-20 ships and seen them all zapped without a single hit. I've considered making missile components smaller so you can cram more into a ship, or making them fire more often, but this makes them MUCH too powerful in the early game or against someone who doesn't have PDC yet. We need some sort of change in the way seekers work in order to achieve a reasonable balance. There has to be some sort way to enhance the ecm of seekers, and/or the seeker damage resistance. Maybe their range could be extended and speed increased. Since mounts can make a direct-fire weapon have nearly the range of a CSM V the value of seekers is much reduced. If we could go back to the mathematical formula or have an extra 20 range (another row of boxes) for seekers this might help give them a real advantage again if they were even faster than fighters. They'd need a speed of 10 or so to be really effective, I think.

But the other statements about missiles are true. The best way to use them is to put them in WPs and Satellites. Since the component is so large it's hard to get a good rate of fire with ships unless you outnumber your opponent. This is not something you can count on, of course. Also, you're paying maintenance on the ships but not on the units. So a stack of units with missiles is the best way to deploy them.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 21 August 2001).]

[Rich04]

Perhaps Modding in a Multiple Missile Launcher Component to represent a large volley of smaller missiles that are hard to shoot down. (Increasing the damage resistance significantly)
I could see this being true for Plasma Missiles too. Very dispersed and hard to kill/stop.

------------------
"I apologize. I'm ... sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves
against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid
enough to fire on a station full of a quarter of a million civilians,
including your own people. And I'm sorry that I waited as long as I
did before I blew them straight to hell. ... As with everything else,
it's the thought that counts." -- Captain John Sheridan, Babylon 5

[Phoenix-D]

quote:

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There has to be some sort way to enhance the ecm of seekers, and/or the seeker damage resistance.

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You mean like this?

Weapon Seeker Dmg Res :=30

Straight out of components.txt. Does it work, I wonder? I'll test it.

EDIT: It works.

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 22 August 2001).]

[Baron Munchausen]

That's amusing, Phoenix-D. Yes, you can set it higher, but then you can just set the PDC damage higher, too. I meant some way within the game to scale damage. Like a MOUNT setting that lets you make seekers stronger. Currently, mounts do not affect seekers. I suppose we could make a very involved tech-tree for missiles with "armored" missiles available for a combined tech requirement of missile tech with armor tech. And maybe make faster missiles available as higher levels of propulsion are researched. But if you multiply the levels of propulsion by the levels of armor you'll end up with a HUGE grid of missile types. That's a lot of bloat in the components.txt file. There must be a better way.

[Phoenix-D]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
That's amusing, Phoenix-D. Yes, you can set it higher, but then you can just set the PDC damage higher, too.

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If the idea is to fix a problem, WHY would you do that?!

quote:

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There must be a better way.

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Or if you think it's imbalanced..

..just fix it. Boost the missile damage resitance, leave the PD alone. PD isn't affected by mounts either, I think.

Want a mount for missiles? How about one that kicks the range up?

Phoenix-D

[dmm]

Been fooling around with Star Trek: Starfleet Battles lately. I like how they handle missiles. (Yellow Alert: STSB has a strategic component but mainly is real-time tactical. So it is a bit opposite to SEIV. But I still think this may be helpful.) Anyway, in STSB, missiles do a lot of damage if they hit, just like SEIV (but maybe even more so). There are fast, medium, and slow missiles. The slow ones are free, but ships at full speed can outrun them. And there are small and big ones. You can carry twice as many small ones, but of course they don't do nearly the damage of the large ones (half?). Your launchers can only launch a certain number of missiles at each load, regardless of type. Missiles reload FASTER than most other weapons, even faster than PDC. (HUGE difference from SEIV.) Ships will automatically use tractor beams to hold missiles off if they are charged. Ships will also automatically use phasers as backup PD if they are charged. (You can probably turn that auto-defense off, but I don't know how yet. Anyway, I like it.) Missiles run out of fuel and disappear after a certain amount of time. Like SEIV, they never simply miss.

In practice, a well-rounded ship will be able to beat off the first attack from a same-size missile-dependent ship, and do some damage as well. But she'd better get away fast, otherwise the next wave of missiles will hit before her PDC and phasers recharge. Turning on tractor beams will stop some but not all of the next wave, and will slow down phaser recharging. Also, that's risky, because then if you lose the tractor beams before the missiles die ... BOOM! It's loads of fun to knock down the shields and beam marines on to such a ship, with orders to destroy the tractor beam! ("Beam us back, and I mean NOW!") Of course, it's also fun to hold off missiles with your tractors and then bLast a missile ship at point-blank range with full overloaded phasers that the enemy thought you'd need for backup PD. ("Taste my vengeance, you fool!")

Does anyone else like the sound of this?
What could be done to implement this in SEIV (as much as currently possible)?
Has anyone already made a mod like this?