Should VRISS/Arena be restored ?

Pergite · #1 July 5th, 2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

SCAJolly said:
Could one implement a feature (I haven't seen it yet) that causes there to be a risk of infantry causalty if a tank with ARENA uses it, while an infantry unit is located in the same hex?

The same rule would in that case have to be implemented on regular WPsmoke dischargers and grenades.

SCAJolly · #2 July 5th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Why so? Not only does the smoke land fifty metres/a hex in front of the unit discharging them, but surely the explosion would be more devastating (and at least cause suppression) than grenades falling in a rookie's head?

PlasmaKrab · #3 July 5th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Do you really think that rapid-blooming chaff/smoke clouds, presumably exploding some meters over the ground, would cause that much suppression on neighbouring troops?
Also consider that VIRSS/smoke pots tend to land some ten meters away from the firing vehicle (any tanker to confirm/correct that?). In a 50m radius hex, the infnatry squad can pretty well be at the opposite corner, or behind the tank, where they will be screened by the smoke, and should therefore feel less suppressed given that the enemy cannot seem them anymore. Also consider that moves less than 50m are not calculated in (missile evasion), so you squad can very wel be warned and move out, or the tank move in front of them while manoeuvring.

Oh, and AFAIK the smoke used is no WP (phosphorous), which tends to be more than dangerous and is used to throw smoke/flares on the enemy's face: see the US M-20 flash launcher for one example: the real thing fires WP ammo.

Weasel · #4 July 6th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Hi; I am an ex-zipper head (tanker).

The smoke grenades land about 20 meters in front of the vehicle. There is no shrapnel effect from the discharging smoke canisters, and even if you were hit by a canister it would only leave a good lump and bruise at the most.

I am not sure about the VIRSS shot though, we didn't have those on the Leos when I drove.

Pergite · #5 July 6th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Weasel said:
Hi; I am an ex-zipper head (tanker)...

...I am not sure about the VIRSS shot though, we didn't have those on the Leos when I drove.

I think its standard today. Today most smoke dischargers are armed with VIRSS (Visual and InfraRed Smoke Screening System). It offers a 1-2 minute smoke screen 20-50m in front of the vehicle. The smoke itself is thick hot smoke that contains small metal fragments to disrupt even active sensors.

Stirling · #6 July 6th, 2005, 02:27 PM

Shouldn't some of the U.S. vehicles have VIRSS in the oobs, or do we not use it at all?

PlasmaKrab · #7 July 6th, 2005, 03:05 PM

Most modern AFVs have IR-screening smoke pots, but the principle of the VIRSS system in the game is more sophisticated than that.

It is meant to be linked to various sensors (laser warning recievers, flash detectors, milliwave radars...), which automatically detect incoming missiles and spread the smoke layers, plus in some cases high energy flashes or laser jamming.

So it doesn't boil down to advanced smoke pots, but it also needs the whole electronic suit, which many countries haven't fielded yet.

Pergite · #8 July 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

SCAJolly said:
Why so? Not only does the smoke land fifty metres/a hex in front of the unit discharging them, but surely the explosion would be more devastating (and at least cause suppression) than grenades falling in a rookie's head?

I meant that the smoke (at least the white phosphorus munition) should cause damage or at least suppression in the hex it lands. We are talking about a rain of burning pieces of metal, that quickly burns through both clothes and skin. (just look at the picture in my last post)

WP grenades was even extensivly used to clear out foxholes and trenches in the Falklands.

SCAJolly · #9 July 5th, 2005, 03:59 PM

Certainly, but that pic looks as if its taken from a larger demonstration. A tank would fire... how many discharges? Four, eight? Spread over such an area, I don't think they'd cause any fear. Rather, if an infantry unit that is suppressed is within the hex of a discharging tank, it would be more neat if the suppression was decreased 2 or 4 points.

Pergite · #10 July 5th, 2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

SCAJolly said:
Certainly, but that pic looks as if its taken from a larger demonstration. A tank would fire... how many discharges? Four, eight? Spread over such an area, I don't think they'd cause any fear. Rather, if an infantry unit that is suppressed is within the hex of a discharging tank, it would be more neat if the suppression was decreased 2 or 4 points.

I know from experience that it hurts to get burning WP on you, and that it indeed can create terrible wounds, because it burns through everything.