Machineguns

[PlasmaKrab]

Another tiny thing that frustrates the bloody hell out of me, and which IS very unrealistic: Tiny vehicles go first!!

Are you talking generated battle or scenario here?

In the first case, remember that tiny vehicles are often faster, so if the IA deploys everyone on one line, which it will certainly do, the light APCs are bound to rush in faster than the tracks and tanks. Best remedy is to reduce the range of your heavy AT units (tanks, ATGMs, helos) until the big stuff comes up, and suppress/kill the small ones with artillery and support weapons. Particularly in a defense mission where all your units are entrenched you lose nothing at letting them come up to you first!

I'm sure **EVERYONE KNOWS** that if you pick a unit and press "W" you can select any of the four weapons you want without having to turn OFF any of the others and that way you do not have to fire "un-necessary" weapons

Sorry to insist on that Don, but apparently what both Jolly and Exel had on their minds was a feature that would restrict said weapons, just like the one existing, but according to the category of target. That sounds awful to do indeed, for both programmers and players (for every unit, carefully ticking what weapon to fire on what target...)

One easier way to do so would be to choose between "sure damage" and "all weapons", following whether you want to fire the least shots with the bigger PK or blaze away with everything to pin the guys down.

Now I guess everyone can do with the current feature!

[FJ_MD]

Let's suppose you have a tank with

1)main gun
2)ATGM
3)machine gun
4)machine gun


You see an enemy tank and, after select it as a target, you hit "w" key

at this point you can select weapon number 2 and fire, then, if the shot bounce off or miss, hit again "w" and select weapon number 1 that will have at least 1-3 available shot after the ATGM try...


This will prevent any machine gun fire at all.


If you see and infantry team you will have not a single problem cuz when you fire, tha main gun will load with he ammo and the machine gun will fire after the main gun.


I think this is a good way to manage this and also give lot of control over the battle!

[WBWilder]

REalistically, in battle I think a tank crew, if within range, would fire everything it had at an opposing tank. Hearing the clatter of MG fire on the hull or turret has to be unnerving, I would think.

I've never been in a tank fight and am not sure of the official doctrine. But like so many other instance, when guns are blazing and men are falling, sometimes one's reflex to survive kicks in and if he has any means to deter death, he will use it.

Wild Bill

[Sewter]

Holy Cow! Wild Bill... I used to download your scenarios back in the 90's for Steel Panthers 2! You have been around since the beginning. I think that the MG suppression is accurately portrayed in the game. At least for the actual/original Steel Panthers experience. Anyhow, it's nice to see you around. (Hope 400 wasn't too bad this evening)

[Exel]

Sewter said:The use of MGs have been used for range finding. By applying this technique for the game, you can actually improve your hitting %. This is a fun way of playing the game. Here is a quote about the use of this technique, and the site.

"The Chieftain solved the problem of ranging the main gun by using a ranging machine gun with similar ballistic characteristics as the cannon. When the machine gun rounds hit the target, the gunner could be reasonably assured that his cannon round will hit."

This is all true, but in that case the MG would be fired first to get the range right and the main gun would then be fired for effect.

WBWilder said:
REalistically, in battle I think a tank crew, if within range, would fire everything it had at an opposing tank. Hearing the clatter of MG fire on the hull or turret has to be unnerving, I would think.

You would only do that in a close quarters "panic" situation, as I said earlier. There is absolutely no point in gunning a main battle tank 2500 meters away with a 7.62mm peashooter that is not even going to hit (it wont, since the coax MG is meant for area fire).

Besides, unless you are at full charge, once you see the enemy you are supposed to fire the main gun, pull out of sight and reload, then pop up again (preferably in another spot), fire and rince and repeat until the target is no more. Of course this depends a lot on the terrain and the given tactical situation, but that's the basics. In any case you are not supposed to lie still visible to the enemy while reloading the gun and wait for retaliatory fire.

I'm sure it isn't an impossible task to code the weapons behaviour so that small arms (with 0 AP capability) are not fired at heavy armored vehicles.

[Sewter]

Hi Exel, I understand what you are getting at. But look at it this way: It is a feature that will stay. So, perhaps you can think of ways that you can use it functionally/ strategically for gameplaying. For increasing hitting %, try this: 'T' arget your opponent. You will know what your primary(1) weapon's hitting % is. If you do not like it's %, then: 'T'arget your opponent, stay on your unit (click on it), hit your 'W'eapon to choose secondary (2,3, or 4) weapon. Then, 'F'ire your secondary weapon to target! You will notice an increase to your hitting % on your primary weapon (the one that counts!). You may be surprised, but the tactic that I wrote of, in the previous post, really is something that has been used by not just the UK, but by many armies the world over. Hopefully this may help. Otherwise, for the game and the fame: Hit them with anything! Suppress your enemy!

[Chaim_Krause]

A quick comment on this subject, although not in a manner that is related to WinSPMBT.

Machine Gun fire is so ineffective against tanks that it is common practice to "scratch the back" of a friendly tank. If a tanker sees enemy infantry on or around a friendly tank, he will spray machine gun fire around the friendly tank with the hope of killing the enemy infantry knowing full well that the rounds will not harm the friendly tank. Now, granted, it may cut off a radio antenna, knock out a tail light, or something similar, but it won't injure the crew or lessen the tank's combat effectiveness.

An example of this can be found here.

[Exel]

Sewter said:
But look at it this way: It is a feature that will stay.

I think this is a pretty unconstructive way to develop a game. I can understand if it simply can't be done, which I doubt, but saying that it wont change because "it just wont" is not really adequate. At least give a reason why not.

[FJ_MD]

Read through this thread and you will understand why not...

[Exel]

There hasn't been a single explanation as to why it couldn't be done, other than "it's always been like that" and "it wont change". If there is no real reason not to change it, then it should be changed.