winMBT low percentile hits

Arralen · #1 July 16th, 2005, 03:25 AM

Uuuooh ... hitting someone ducking along in 400m with an AK-47 ?!
Do they use original Sowjet guns with scopes and match ammo?

"Universally accepted" effective range of the AK-47 is 300m !
( US Army Field Manual 100-2-3 - The Soviet Army; Troops Organisation and Equipment published in June 1991.)

loktarr · #2 July 16th, 2005, 06:33 AM

Maybe your Israelis were not hitten by the only AK-47, there are also support weapons in a squad...
And are PKM and other light machinguns firing at 300m only?
Poor Egyptians, if they don't have any support weapon in their squads...

nosrac · #3 July 17th, 2005, 01:11 AM

are you guys saying it is normal for ANY infantry squad(not just poor egypitans..blah..blah..) to score kills on tacticly moving infantry(small arms, 50m hex,9-10 men) at 300-400 meters???
machine gun,ak,m16,rpg.. whatever the hell weapon they choose. is that right?if that is the case fine with me. that is very impressive. effective range means what? supression,kills?so if im in a squad, creeping(cover) down a road some unsupressed 65 exp. squad can drop two men at 300-400m with a pk b/c i can't see him???????!!!!!!!i did not realize how accurate modern weapons were. i am not in the military and don't have battlefield exp so this is a definate learning cruve for me. thanks.
chuck

loktarr · #4 July 17th, 2005, 06:20 AM

That's not a problem of modern weapon or not, BTW during WW2, german MG-42 could fire at an aim at 800m (reported from a guy that was on eastern front)...

Exel · #5 July 17th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Given a situation where an infantry squad fires at another infantry squad 400 meters away with everything they've got (assault rifles as well as MGs), then I see nothing spectacular in them getting one or two kills. You certainly can't snipe with an AK to 400 meters, but if you get enough bullets in the area, some of them are bound to hit your target.

DRG · #6 July 17th, 2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Exel said:
Given a situation where an infantry squad fires at another infantry squad 400 meters away with everything they've got (assault rifles as well as MGs), then I see nothing spectacular in them getting one or two kills. You certainly can't snipe with an AK to 400 meters, but if you get enough bullets in the area, some of them are bound to hit your target.

Exactly. As well this is NOT something that happens all the time in the game OR in reality and those 2 "kills" are not "kills" they are casualties and "Casualties" means a man is removed from the fighting and that can cover anything from and outright kill to a case of "battle fatigue"

One "problem" we have always had is the number generator sometimes, in certain conditions, generates too many high or low end results in a row just as if you were playing an old board game with dice and seem to be cursed or charmed by rolling snake eyes or box cars more than is "normal" it's one of the quirks of the game and it's also one of the things that allows the game to simulate the fact that in combat, you can do everything right and by the book but if the other guys gets lucky all the training in the world won't help you and sometimes even Egyptian conscripts can score effectively against high trained Israeli Paras. S**t Happens

Don

nosrac · #7 July 17th, 2005, 01:27 PM

thanks to all for helpful comments. i guess i also need to remember that each turn(pulse) is 3-5 min. a lot of lead can fly in that time frame. just curious. i've read that the ai performs best with a batillion size force when attacking. is that correct? thanks again.

Weasel · #8 July 18th, 2005, 08:11 PM

Effective range for the C7 (M16 if you are American) is maximum 300 meters with the scope. Optimal range is 200 meters. Effective fire is "FIRE THAT WILL CAUSE CASUALTIES IF APPROPRIATE ACTION IS NOT TAKEN".

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

loktarr · #9 July 19th, 2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

MG-42 was also a looser built weapon and I never heard allied veterans saying it was not accurate...
In fact from some experiments (serious ones, I mean), the AK-47 is more accurate at great ranges because of the weight of the bullet (7,62mm), but it's not the same for the AK-74, as it is a 5,45mm bullet...

PlasmaKrab · #10 July 19th, 2005, 05:02 AM

What is the actual, precise formula for gun accuracy?

All rifles tend to have an accuracy of 1, and when you shift to MGs or sniper rifles it bounces up to 20+...

I understand the factors like fast response, no time to aim, guys manning several weapons at once etc., but shouldn't some rifles be pulled up a bit so the quality difference can really be on accuracy, without having to tweak the range?

Or has this theme already been discussed and buried? I should think it has...