winMBT low percentile hits

[loktarr]

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

MG-42 was also a looser built weapon and I never heard allied veterans saying it was not accurate...
In fact from some experiments (serious ones, I mean), the AK-47 is more accurate at great ranges because of the weight of the bullet (7,62mm), but it's not the same for the AK-74, as it is a 5,45mm bullet...

[PlasmaKrab]

What is the actual, precise formula for gun accuracy?

All rifles tend to have an accuracy of 1, and when you shift to MGs or sniper rifles it bounces up to 20+...

I understand the factors like fast response, no time to aim, guys manning several weapons at once etc., but shouldn't some rifles be pulled up a bit so the quality difference can really be on accuracy, without having to tweak the range?

Or has this theme already been discussed and buried? I should think it has...

[Weasel]

Ok, I ran a test in winmbt against human opponents counting the number of times a tank's main gun fires and hits/misses, or a missile hits/misses. Here is what I got after 200 shots, H=hit, M=miss

3% 1H
4% 1H 1M
5% 2M
7% 1M
8% 1H 1M
9% 2M
11% 1M
12% 1H 2M
14% 3H 4M
15% 1M
16% 3H 4M
17% 2H 1M
18% 3M
19% 2M
20% 2H 3M
21% 4H 1M
22% 2H 2M
23% 2H 4M
24% 5H 3M
25% 5H 3M
26% 2H 4M
27% 1H 4M
28% 3M
29% 3H 2M
30% 2H 6M
31% 1H 2M
32% 2H 1M
33% 6M
34% 1H 4M
35% 1H 1M
36% 1H 2M
37% 1M
38% 1M
40% 3H
41% 1H 3M
42% 4H 3M
43% 3M
44% 2H 1M
45% 2M
47% 2H 1M
48% 1M
49% 1H
50% 2M
51% 1H 2M
52% 1H
53% 1H 1M
54% 2H
55% 2M
56% 1M
57% 1H
60% 1H 1M
61% 2M
63% 1H 5M
64% 1M
66% 1H
67% 2H
68% 1H
71% 1H 1M
73% 3H
74% 1H
75% 2H 1M
76% 1H
78% 1H
79% 2H
85% 1H
90% 1H
91% 1H
93% 1H
94% 2H 1M
99% 4H

As you can see from above the majority of % to hit in winMBT are below 50% yet you still have about a 61% to hit. Now I am no scientist and I don't know how much value the above table is, but it seems to me that if you have a low % shot take it as the odds seem pretty good that the round will strike home.

[narwan]

Some quick math based on your table shows that the average hit percentage per shot for those at 20% or lower is 12%.

14 out of 42 shots were hits though giving a 33%.

Are your scores based on the % shown in the 'target' screen or the listed percentages on screen when actually firing?

[Weasel]

The % are the final % shown when the shot is fired.

[Weasel]

So was this ever looked at? Just wondering as the game continues to kill at incredible low odds (just lost 5 M18s to 25% chances or less from long range). BTW Narwan, I am not sure of your math, but my math of 20% or less shots shows that out of a total of 42 shots fired, 14 hit or 33%, shouldn't this max out a 20%? And if you go to 25% then 32 hit out of 73 shots, or 44%.

[Wdll]

No.
20% is for each hit, not for all your hits added together.

[Arralen]

Actually, the MG-42 used heavy, speedy 7,92x57mm ammo ("8x57IS") with very flat trajectory (755-800 m/s, 3.600 - 5.000 J, effective range 800m with bipod, 3000-3500m on mounting).

The AK-47 uses slow 7,62x39mm bullet (710m/s, 2,010 J, effective range 300m).

Ak-74 uses high-velocity lightweight 5.45x39mm bullet (velocity: ~900 m/s, energy: ~1,350 J, effective range of around 400m because of flatter trajectory, the sights are zeroed for 300m)

[loktarr]

I didn't read that for the AKs, but you seem to got really precise informations so, it must be true...

[Arralen]

ammo performance
Those you can easily look up - Google will tell you a bunch of reliable sites which come up with congruent info.

effective range
A target is in effective range, if you can actually expect the weapon to have effect reliably (not random hits only).

For the AK-47 it's just the case that @400m you'll have to point it a little bit much "at the sky" rather than at the target, and the slow bullet is prone to wind drift etc. or to miss just because the target moved away. So you simply can't hit a target reliably at that range. Therefore it is generally attributed with an effective range of 300m.

The AK-74 is attributed with an effective range of 400m because of the faster bullet. It is also said that the small projectile has low stopping power, as it seems to simply go right through without breaking up (as the soft-core fullme tal jacket NATO 5,56 from M16 does). This would result in a lower HEkill factor, gamewise !?

The MG-43 @ 3000m is a little bit different, as this surely isn't aimed, but plugging area fire. Using a heavy tripod, the MG is "converted" into a HMG. Traverse in every direction can be limited seperatly, therefore a "kill zone" can be set up beforehand and later "sprayed" with bullets.
Direct fire using the tripod and attached scope is possible up to 1600m or something, IIRC from the time I had to fiddle around with it's successor MG-3