War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

Alpha Kodiak · #1 September 13th, 2001, 03:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
QUOTE:
the rest of the world will owe us another debt of gratitude for d
/QUOTE

Is this really what you Americans believe? That the rest of the world owes you a favour because you (eventually) took part in the World Wars? You don't think 50 years of economic supremacy and the assimilation of half the planet into your mindset and culture is reward enough? Someone please tell me he's the only one...

We're not asking for a favor, we just don't like being kicked while we are down. It is not fun to have thousands of your people die and then have people give reasons for why we are so horrible that we shouldn't do anything about it.

Alpha Kodiak · #2 September 13th, 2001, 04:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
To all of you, especially those from other countries.

I appologize for allowing my anger and my fear for seeping into my Last few Posts. I know many of you live in coutries where these kinds of things are more expected. But the fact is that here, they are not.

Or were not. We Americans have been changed in the Last few days. I hope for the better, but I do not know that for sure. Hopefully our leaders can remain calm in these trying times and only do what is right.

I will try to keep my further Posts here limited to Space Empires.

And I will try to get a hold of myself.

Geoschmo

Geo,

You are not alone. I too am finding it difficult to deal with the current events. It is not the attack that hurts the most, but those who choose to take pot shots at us as we try to deal with this situation. (I'll probably draw some with this post, but I don't care anymore.) I think I will now drop this subject as well. I do not need any more heartburn in my life right at the moment.

dogscoff · #3 September 13th, 2001, 04:20 PM

OK, the meaning of my post has been misunderstood here. It's my own fault for addressing Geoshmoe's "another debt of gratitude" out of the context of his post.

QUOTE:
have thousands of your people die and then have people give reasons for why we are so horrible that we shouldn't do anything about it.
/QUOTE

I never said we were doing you a favour and I nver said you shouldn't do something about terrorism. I was just reacting to Geoschmoe's comment about everyone owing the US a favour (Actually, he said "debt of gratitude". ~Same thing.)

You're right, it doesn't matter where this guy came from, he can't be allowed to continue. (Assuming he actually did it, that is.) By all means defend yourselves, react or counter attack (sensibly) - we'll support you. However it's never enough *just* to react- you have to look at the reasons why it happened in the first place.

I'm sorry for my comments if they have caused offence, particularly since you US ppl have plenty to deal with as it is right now. It's just that this has whole thing has stirred up a lot of US nationalism / patriotism / militarism / moralising, and for some reason that tends to get me into yank-bashing mode immediately. It probably shouldn't, but it does. Sorry.

Take a look at my previous Posts on this thread, you'll see I'm not such a bad guy=-)

*Dogscoff orders everyone a reconciliatory beer.

------------------
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[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 13 September 2001).]

Askan Nightbringer · #4 September 13th, 2001, 04:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
*Dogscoff orders everyone a reconciliatory beer.

I'll drink to that.

Askan

geoschmo · #5 September 13th, 2001, 04:53 PM

I'll take that beer Dogscoff. And I'll buy you one too. I have read back over my words, and they were too emptionally charged, and that is why I appologized.

It may in fact be that America owes the world an apology for making this mess by enabling these people to get to where they are today. And if that is the case we are reaping what we have sown.

We may in fact owe the world an apology for delaying our entry into the two World Wars until American blood was shed.

I heard an interview with Sen. Joe Biden Last night, who incidentally is my new hero, where he spoke very eloquently to this fact. I have to paraphrase cause I don't recall all the words, but basically it was to the effect that the American people didn't move when the entire British Army was floating in the Channel (I am assuming he is talking about Dunkirk), but when bombs fell on Pearl, we moved.

I can tell you that personally I am unacustomed to being afraid. I am uncomfortable with the feeling. I don't know if this is an American thing, or just me personnaly. Tuesday I was afraid. Today I am angry.

I live in Ohio. For those of you unfamilier with America this is geographically, and even culturally many miles from New York City. Before Tuesday, New York City often times felt like as much of a foreign city to me as London.

Today I am a New Yorker.

On Monday, and every day prior in my life I looked to the sky and felt safe. I felt that I was master of all that I surveyed.

Of course I was naive, but that is how it was.

Before Tuesday my greatest fear was that another American would kill me for the twenty dollars in my pocket. I never conceived of an attack from outside.

Of course I was naive, but that is how it was.

I will tell you something that was not reported on the national news. On Tuesday afternoon as the President returned to Washington, his plane flew over Ohio. Some fighters esscorting him broke the sound barrier.

We were not warned that this might happen. At the time I was not aware what the noise was. I went outside and saw the contrails in a sky where the news had just told me there were no planes. And for a time I was frightened. My knees were were literally weak.

I was not the master of all I surveyed.

I am no longer naive.

To those that wish to do us harm, and I do not believe anybody who visits this forum is one of those...

If your goal was to make us afraid, you have suceeded.

If you goal was to take away our naivete, you have succeded.

If your goal was to make us angry, you have succeded.

If your goal was to make us weak, you have failed.

Geoschmo

Exculcator · #6 September 13th, 2001, 04:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:

I'm sorry for my comments if they have caused offence, particularly since you US ppl have plenty to deal with as it is right now. It's just that this has whole thing has stirred up a lot of US nationalism / patriotism / militarism / moralising, and for some reason that tends to get me into yank-bashing mode immediately. It probably shouldn't, but it does. Sorry.

[/b]

Same here, sorry.
And I certainly didn't mean that you have no right to do anything.
Hell, go shoot that dog, geoschmo!
Just wanted to say, be sure you shoot the right dog.

Can I have my beer now please..

dogscoff · #7 September 13th, 2001, 05:06 PM

QUOTE:
We may in fact owe the world an apology for delaying our entry into the two World Wars until American blood was shed.
/QUOTE

I for one am opposed to th whole "sins of the father" thing. Dunkirk and D-Day was well before I was born, and I think it is ridiculous for a nation or a people or a religion ar anything to apologise for something perpetrated by their predecessors.
Hell, as an Englishman I'd be apologising for the rest of my life.

Furthermore I'm not too big on nationalism either. You say that you hurt because your people died. I consider them my people as much as yours; as you said yourself, in today's world New York is as far from Ohio as London.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.