War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Damn. UA is going to lay off 12000 people.

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Yep, the consequences of this attack are going to be very real. People are now afraid to travel and will only do so when necessary, at least for a while. The whole airline industry is facing collapse. Bush has put on a decent 'brave face' for these first few days, but he's really going to have his leadership abilities tested keeping things together.

What worries me is this is also a "propoganda coup" for the terrorists. They will now be 10 times more popular among the radicalized portion of the Islamic populations and be able to attract more recruits and money. I hope the non-radical governments will not be intimidated and will cooperate to stop them.

[CW]

quote:

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Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Damn. UA is going to lay off 12000 people.

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And Ansett Australia Airways here in Aust just went over the top, that's 16000 jobs gone. One year ago there were 4 big airlines flying domestic routes here, one year later 2 were gone... And that marks the third large corporation going broke this year I think, after One Tel and HIH. Time to talk about voting out the current government!

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- Two men believed to have been planning an attack on American interests in Europe have been charged in Belgium with possession of weapons of war.

Prosecutors said on Saturday that the two men charged face four separate counts, but they would not say what the other charges were.

The men, who were arrested on Thursday, were members of a radical Muslim group, said Fabienne Laduron, spokeswoman for Brussels prosecutor's office.

She said they were not ruling out a connection with Osama bin Laden.

The men were taken into custody in co-ordination with Netherlands authorities, who arrested four others in Rotterdam on Friday.

Police were analysing documentation that indicated the men were planning on attacking American interests in Europe.

France is sending two magistrates who specialise in terror cases to Brussels on Monday to consult on the case.

A French radio station, Europe 1, reported that the American embassy in Paris was a target. Laduron could not confirm that report.

One of the men arrested in Brussels was Tunisian, and the other was a Belgian national of North African descent.

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This is getting out of hand. If even naturalized citizens of Western nations are turning into agents of the terrorists we're in big trouble.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 15 September 2001).]

[disabled]

For those of you who jumped off topic and argued about the southern rebellion back in the 1860's, The US Consitution is a binding contracts between the states. Attempting to leave is a breach of the contract and it is stated under the powers of the Federal Constitution that it can 'supress revolts'

In addition, it is the right of the people, not the states, to overthrow illegal, immoral, and severaly corrupt governments and replace it with a new one. However, the South had no base for this argument as they were the ones trying to prevent thier immoral and illegal state governments intact.

That is why the 14th amendment Federalized the Bill of Rights, because the states kept abusing the Bill of Rights.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[tesco samoa]

Hey every one .

I just wanted to let everyone know that I went to a wedding today it it was nice seeing an event that shaped the world for the better.

I feel that I will get a good sleep tonight for the first time in a while.

Even the food was good.

I hope the rest of you have a good night or day and I hope this post finds you all in better spirits and good health.

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[disabled]

What ever those people thought they could do by striking at America's heart has horribly backfired. They've united this country in a way that only war can and now... well... now they have sealed thier fate

[ June 13, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[Taqwus]

One can see a few possibly intended effects.

The first is psychological shock. Apparently, quite a few citizens were unaware of the possibility of foreign terrorism hitting U.S. soil (by which I mean Stateside; embassies are nominally U.S. sovereign territory and have been hit before). This shock is undoubtably going to cause some to wonder whether the U.S. should revise its foreign policy by, say, pulling out of the Middle East -- withdrawing support for, say, Saudi Arabia and Israel, for instance, in the name of peace. With this president and this foreign policy staff, this seems, er, unlikely to actually happen, but if there is a seemingly endless series of incidents against which the three-letter-agencies seem helpless the penduluum *could* swing.

Another effect is going to be unwarranted rage against American Arabs, and anybody that seemingly *looks* like an Arab -- e.g. Sikhs with their turbans. Some footage of anti-Arab riots, perhaps some mosques on fire or a few shootings, and that's new material for recruitment videos. Likewise, if the military response, assuming it occurs, appears ineffective or even incompetent, *especially* with collateral damage, that's also golden for Al Qaeda and friends.

To a lesser extent, there may be improvements in immigration security / border controls, but these could also cause resentment among non-Americans, especially if they are seen to be more restrictive towards Middle Easterners. Can we say, "racial profiling"?

Then, there are going to be attempts at increasing security with less regard for civil liberties -- restrictions on encryption technology, for instance, have already been demanded and are much more likely to get Congressional / Presidential approval in this climate, methinks. Taken too far, these measures may increase anti-government sentiment among some.

A potentially very dangerous effect is the sudden focus on airport / airline security. Assume that these attacks were part of a coordinated plan, and that there may already be other cells already located stateside just in case *all* international travel was locked down. Locking down airports more is an obvious response, so there are at least three major options regarding next target. The first would be that civillian aircraft make fine missiles, but it's worth waiting until the current frenzy dies down -- perhaps in a few months, the country will be less vigilant.

The second approach is that the psychological impact will be increased if the FAA and other Federal entities declare that it's safe to fly, and then to strike again at the height of alleged security -- thus suggesting that the security organizations are still impotent and that the actors can strike whenever they choose.

A third approach is to use an entirely different vector; while the country scrutizines airport safety; to examine completely different approaches such as tampering with water supplies; mining harbors used by huge cruise ships; perhaps spreading anthrax or other agents among the rescue volunteers (many of whom came from across the country; and most of whom will return, thus increasing dispersal); or even noticing that the President came, in person, to one site, and therefore planning an ambush with explosives or a rifleman (who presumably would not mind being cut to pieces by return fire from the Secret Service).

It'll help to be careful at an airport, but folks should remember that those *aren't* the only possible targets.


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-- The thing that goes bump in the night