Stone-throwing Mobs/Crowds etc

[PlasmaKrab]

Wether such "non-lethal" weapons at large should be included in the game is something that can be debated for a long time. However, everyone can agree that the game engine wasn't designed for that kind of engagement.

Now that's not the type of obstacle that will prevent some from trying!
I don't know if weapons with zero HEK screw up something in the game, I have been testing some and it went alright as far as I can tell. At any rate, the fact that non-killing weapons (or at least intended to be so) made casualties can be apprehended by assuming, as I think is the principle in the game, that a casualty can be as well some guy with his guts torn out by a mortar shell or someone temporarily knocked down and left behind by his team or playing dead.

[Mobhack]

There are no "non lethal" weapons in the game - thrown stones break bones and put troops out of action for the length of a scenario.

HE fire will cause casualties - whether warhead size is 0 or not, the code will assign a small chance in any case, and target supression etc can contribute to HE casualties as well.

"casualty" != dead trooper. It covers injured, stunned/shocked, run-aways and others not available during an hour or 2 of battle, e.g those carying injured to the rear etc. it therefore can be considered to cover morale damage as well as physical injuries.

A "Bloody Sunday" type scenario just is not really in this game engine's remit. A scenario with SAS in hiding in a police station waiting for an attack by a Provo ASU would be (just) - though the scale would really be too small for the game engine, such a small-scale micro-action would be better handled in one of the 3D "squad level" RTS games available from other manufacturers where 1 basic unit=1 man that concentrate on SWAT(paramilitary police) or similar low-level (below the platoon level) tactics. Those 3-D squad-level game engines may also cover "arresting" the opposition, baton rounds, CS gas, snatch teams and so on (I would hope a "SWAT" or counter-terrorist type game engine would allow that, and not just blasting away at the criminals with lethal weaponry ! )

The MBT game engine is for "open battle" between 2 military forces in an open war situation. Ie both sides "weapons free".


Cheers
Andy

[Listy]

I had a similar senario, and problem, only set in Iraq.

The senario:
A road Patrol was ordered to a town to rescue a group of Contractors surounded by an angry mob(tm). The Rvoer's where ment to drive up to the mob pick up the contractors and their guards, then get attacked by an Armed mob (Patent applied for).
However as the rover's drove through the mob, they'd get assualted and destroyed by the unamred mobs.

The soloution:
Despite the -25 Morale and EXp the mobs still ahd EXP and morale ratiings, so I went through and set everything to 1 morale and 0 EXP. Now when they attacked they fled from the vehicles, and acted just like a mob would when 6 land rover's of armed squadies show up (Of course they all peged it of to the mosque to get bombed up, but still..).

I think there IS a palce for skirmish games like this in SPMBT. these Qucik seanrio's that laow us to kill 20-30 minuets at work are brilliant... Not that I'd instal a game on my Work PC.. or surf this forum from there..

[DRG]

PlasmaKrab said:(or at least intended to be so) made casualties can be apprehended by assuming, as I think is the principle in the game, that a casualty can be as well some guy with his guts torn out by a mortar shell or someone temporarily knocked down and left behind by his team or playing dead.

Changing the message "Men killed" to "Casualties" was THE first change I made with a Hex editor when we first started playing around making Sp2WW2 out of SP2 back in 1998. THE first change... and for that very reason. There are many more "casualties" than there are fatalities and a guy hit in the face with a rock thrown by a 12 year old at a small protest takes him out of action just the same as that rock being kicked up by the explosion of an mortar nearby in a full fledged battle

So the issue wasn't that there were casualties produced but that too many were being produced but if anyone is in doubt a causualty is not neccessarily a "kill"

Don