Support That Is Based Outside Of USA

[Slynky]

El_Phil said:
Slynky if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys. Looking at the costs involved you can't pay western workers to do phone tech support. Unless you charge premium rates for tech support numbers, which you can't as you'll be torn apart in the media. What do you expect? You're buying a cheap system, so you get bad tech support.

Besides 99% of problems can be solved with a flow sheet, for those who's problems can't.... Well peanuts and monkeys. You haven't paid for decent tech support, why should you get it?

The problem is, El_Phil, as a consumer/customer, I generally have NO say-so in what I get. Though I used Dell as an example of a company who supplies support from inside/outside the US, in many ways, I have no choice. I buy Photoshop and make a call, I get what Adobe has put in place. Or anything else I buy for my PC that I may need to call about, as in a router (you don't want to hear that story).

As for paying for something, don't think for a minute EVERY single penny of what it takes to research, produce, distribute, and SUPPORT a product hasn't been figured into its cost. For the stupid people who run out and buy "such-and-such" brand car because it comes with free maintenance for the first 5 years, well, you're just paying up front for all of it (whether you use it or not...which is much worse than paying as you need it).

For those who can remember, cars used to contain a LOT more metal than they do now. Now, there is a lot of "plastic". Why? So the car companies can save money (and brag about how their car didn't increase much in cost. Or, if you ever noticed, go to the store and look at all the food you can buy that is referred to on the can as a pound of "fill-in-the-blank" and look at the net weight (and scratch your head as you wonder if 12 ounces equals a pound or was it 16). Well, the missing ounces and missing metal is analagous to the "missing" tech support. It's another company cutting cost where they can and letting the customer be frustrated. Except in the case of Dell, Michael seems to have had a brain fart as he seems to have forgotten one of the reasons Dell became #1 in the first place...the many years of being rated as the best tech support hardware company (a title they haven't held now in SEVERAL years).

As a person living in the US whose job it is to supply tech support to 140 people, I can tell you 99% of the problems can't be solved with a flowsheet. While I laugh with co-workers at some of the stupid things I DO have to fix, it equates more to about 25% could be fixed. And, as far as service goes in our organization, our customers get FULL SERVICE! That means they never have to move their PC (if they move to another cubicle), that means if their mouse is not smooth, I remove the ball and clean it with alcohol. If they are having a problem lining up labels in the printer, I go ahead and print it out for them. If they order business cards, I don't just give them the 8.5 x 11 inch sheets and let them tear them out, I tear them all out and stack them and deliver them to their desk. If they need CD duplication and label for a mailout, they don't get 50 CDs, the printed labels, mailers, etc, they get 50 CDs with mounted labels, inserted into the slipcover (all facing the correct way), and inserted into the mailers and delivered to their desk for their inspection before mailing. I could go on but who needs to hear it, right?

[El_Phil]

Slynky said:

The problem is, El_Phil, as a consumer/customer, I generally have NO say-so in what I get. Though I used Dell as an example of a company who supplies support from inside/outside the US, in many ways, I have no choice. I buy Photoshop and make a call, I get what Adobe has put in place. Or anything else I buy for my PC that I may need to call about, as in a router (you don't want to hear that story).

As for paying for something, don't think for a minute EVERY single penny of what it takes to research, produce, distribute, and SUPPORT a product hasn't been figured into its cost. For the stupid people who run out and buy "such-and-such" brand car because it comes with free maintenance for the first 5 years, well, you're just paying up front for all of it (whether you use it or not...which is much worse than paying as you need it).

For those who can remember, cars used to contain a LOT more metal than they do now. Now, there is a lot of "plastic". Why? So the car companies can save money (and brag about how their car didn't increase much in cost.


[/quote]

Eh? Last time I checked the chassis of a car was still steel and the bodywork was metal of various types (sports cars use plastic/fibreglass for lower weight). The engine block is still steel/ally depending on makers preference or spec.

Yeah the dash and what have you is plastic, but the metal content has probably only gone down (if it has at all) as steel makers can now get the same strength from thinner sheet metal.

You can't work out the tech support costs, it's impossible to factor in the stupidity factor of many users.

So you don't and charge for it aftersale through phone calls. This is progress and to be encouraged. People who don't learn how to fix their machines and need support pay more. I save money as the cost of support isn't included in the machines/components I buy. Everyone is a winner.

[Slynky]

El_Phil said:
Eh? Last time I checked the chassis of a car was still steel and the bodywork was metal of various types (sports cars use plastic/fibreglass for lower weight). The engine block is still steel/ally depending on makers preference or spec.

Yeah the dash and what have you is plastic, but the metal content has probably only gone down (if it has at all) as steel makers can now get the same strength from thinner sheet metal.

Take a closer look at cars. Look at the Honda Element, for example. OR the Aztec. You'll find about 25% of the body is plastic. Honda will be producing a plastic/synthetic block for their new Si engine. Metal bumpers have been replaced by plastic. And a LOT of cars have the first 6-12 inches of the lower body cast in plastic now. Finally, at least one tire manufacturer is testing plastic tires.

[El_Phil]

Slynky said:

Take a closer look at cars. Look at the Honda Element, for example. OR the Aztec. You'll find about 25% of the body is plastic. Honda will be producing a plastic/synthetic block for their new Si engine. Metal bumpers have been replaced by plastic. And a LOT of cars have the first 6-12 inches of the lower body cast in plastic now. Finally, at least one tire manufacturer is testing plastic tires.

[/quote]

Hey? plastic engine blocks? That just sounds wrong, as in deeply badly wrong. Thermal constraints alone kill that, before you even look at the other problems with that. Any proof of this, just because I'd be damn intersted in how they got round all the problems.

Impact testing is pushing the increased use of bodywork plastics, metal bodies are bad crumple zones, plastics will crumple properly. A massive simplification perhaps, but close enough.

That plastic coating of the lower body, are we talking about anti-corrosion treating or what? I'm not quite sure what your talking about.

Oh and those two examples mean bugger all to me as neither of those two cars are on sale in the UK, so I haven't seen them. Or I might have done, but with a different name. In either case I've no idea what they look like so really can't comment.

[NullAshton]

Plastic is cheap... and fairly strong... excellent for non-structural components such as the outer covering of a car, or the dashboard, or the sides of a car...

[Xrati]

I saw a picture of that engine block 5 years ago. Being a toolmaker and working for a Division of GM at the time I can tell you this. While the engine block is a plastic composite, the moving parts are still metal (inserts, sleeves, bearings). The block is cooled by a unique 'heat-sink' system. There are 6-8 cooling lines running parallel to/on each cylinder. The plastic composite is forged using carbon based material that can withstand heat ranges of an operational engine. The 'casting' is machined as a metal block would be. The biggest problem they were having back then was warping, due to the torque load! AND that was five years ago. I have not seen any recent info on the progress, but I'm sure that with newer materials available, it's probably very close to becoming a reality.

[El_Phil]

Well you learn something every day, I was wondering how you'd do such a thing. As I understand what you said, and if I've got this right, their problem is actually still the heat.

That heat sink system is going to reduce the rigidity of the whole block significantly, if it works as I think it would. That reduction in structural rigidity would lead to defroming under torque, but if you remove the cooling then your going to melt the block.

Of course I could have completely misunderstood what you said. It has been know before

[Xrati]

Actually Phil, the torque load would have deformed the block without the heat. It was a matter of design flaw. The material preformed well within it's specs, the actual stress of the crankshaft and the support of it were the biggest problems. A matter of New concept, Old design!

[Xrati]

Dell is avoiding the mistake that Gateway made. Gateway service was located at their HQ in S. Dakota and the people were friendly and knowledgeable people who spoke in an understandable English. Gateway lost their #1 standing when people complained about their service taking to long to get to. Well now you can call and get service right away! There, people asked for it and they GOT IT!!! Be careful of what you ask for. You may get it!

I did not have to call Gateway very often, but when I did they took good care of me in a timely fashion (usually within 15 mins.). I understood everything they told me and they understood my problems without using flow charts.

Edit in red.

[Slynky]

El_Phil said:
You can't work out the tech support costs, it's impossible to factor in the stupidity factor of many users.

Absolutely FALSE. Calculating expected costs of tech support IS and will ALWAYS be able to be done. Statistics are gathered from past calls and used to forecast future requirements. Info is purchased from other companies and from companies who specialize in forcasting costs. And if it can't be done to within a half a percent of being correct, beleive me, the error will lie in favor of the company, NOT the purchaser of the product.

A statment like yours only shows a certain amount of naiveté in business modeling.