OT: 'Lost' and more...

[Atrocities]

Combat Wombat said:

The tourism site makes it look quite good http://www.bahraintourism.com/

Ya, but they negelect to tell you that as part of the once in a life time get away, you get away for good as your head is seperated from your body.

[AMF]

Pshaw! Don't be foolish - Bahrain is one of the most safest places I've ever lived.

Warning - serious rant beginning!

Don't buy into the propoganda about foriegn countries, or even a subset of them (Islamic countries? Third world countries?) being dangerous. I have traveled through or lived in as diverse places as Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, Pakistani Kashmir, Japan, China, Russia, Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Tchad, Australia, and a number of European countries. And Iraq, for the first five weeks of the war, but that's sort of a different situation.

Only once have I ever had problems or even really ever felt in danger, even in Iraq, and that one time was really my fault becuase we were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and we knew it. Nonetheless, even the most destitute, disturbingly poor people on the planet have almost always been extremely friendly to me. If I had a dime for every time a person who had nothing offered me thier house to stay in, their food to eat, or their time to share, I would be a rich man.

In Iran, every single person I talked to, I kid you not, was extremely friendly, and very embarrassed about their govt and how it was so screwed up. I even got approached by two of the religious police once on the street and when they came up to me and I said I was American they got massive grins on their faces and shook my hand, and wanted to talk about how much they loved the US. Then there was the time the policeman saw me looking at a bunch of anti-US propoganda on a building wall and came up to me an apologized for his government and how screwed up it was.

In Iraq, the people welcomed us with open arms. They loved us. Saddam was as evil as they come, and they really thought the world of us. I have seen those same faces all over the world, faces of people who haven't a damn thing to their name, but still they smile at you becuase, as an American, you represent something better, something more fair and freer than anything they've ever known. Wherever I have gone and seen these faces, in Iraq, in Uganda, in Nigeria, everywhere, it is clear what it was: it was hope. That what American ideals have represented to a lot of the people of the world.

This all makes me very sad - because we are losing all of that goodwill today.

People used to look up to the US. No matter where you went, you were welcomed and embraced as a representative of a country whose ideals everyone looked up to. But those ideals are being flushed down the toilet - now we torture and act the bully - and the ramifications of this are not only geo-political but cultural. And once you lose the trust of others, you can't really regain it...hell, not even the British like us anymore. Who would have thought that in a few short years we could alienate even the Brits?

A big part of the problem with Americans today is we are becoming more and more "exceptionalists" - we seem to think that somehow we're God's gift to the world, or that America is so special that anywhere else in the world has to be dangerous, or poor, or less 'virtuous' or immoral or 'wrong' in some other way.

And, I would bet all the money I have that the vast majority of people who feel that way have never been out of the States even once.

Don't be part of the problem. People in the US may think that the rest of the world doesn't matter, that there is no reason why Americans should even care about what other people think. I could make a million arguments that essentially prove that we are so interconnected today that to think we can 'go it alone' are fundamentally flawed (for example, what do you think would happen if the Chinese, Japanese, and Europeans called in their US treasury bonds? The Great Depression would probably pale in comparison to what would happen...)...

I could make a million practical arguments why we as Americans *should* care about what other people around the world think...but instead I ask that every American out there and think about what America *MEANS* as a concept. What happened to the ideals that this country was founded on? Are they not applicable to all people? Are they not inherently good, and if so, good for all?

Think about this: Rome fell, Greece fell, Babylon fell, Han China fell...over time everything that Man creates disappears. But ideas live on, and for each of these civilization that has disappeared, they have contributed to you, I, and all of us, through the ideals of laws, philosophy, morals, beleifs, and knowledge.

As time goes on, America will change geographically, ethnically, and in every other way. In twenty years, we may all speak Spanish, or have a civil war....and we cannot hold off forever inevitable changes...but what we can do, as individuals and people with free-will and morals, is we can uphold our ideals. Those are the only things that will survive for a thousand years. America won't be here in a thousand years. At this rate, maybe not even a hundred. But her ideals will - if we uphold them.

So, when Americans say that other countries or peoples are dangerous, or unenlightened, or whatever, I get upset - becuase what they are saying is that America is so special that we can afford to ignore the rest of the world, and approach it with arrogance. But in so doing, we are essentially saying that the ideals that our country was founded on apply only to ourselves, only to Americans. And by doing that, we tell the world that our ideals are not for ALL mankind, they are only for certain, special, people. And that will ensure that they do not survive the passage of time.

A passage to remember, and which I find useful as a yardstick to measure my actions: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

In the end, people are people. We're all stuck on this ball together. And we all need to have a little more understanding and open-mindedness, and a little less arrogance and exceptionalism. Only in that way will America's ideals survive, and not fade beneath the sands of time.


Ozymandias

I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

-Percy Bysshe Shelley
1792-1822

Rant ending!

Thanks,

Alarik

Ps: Above, I rant about American 'exceptionalism' but, of course, I also go on about how exceptional American ideals are. So I fully admit that I also fall into the exceptionalist trap -when it comes to our ideals, at least. I don't think American ideals are unique, however, as they derive from a great lineage leading back from the magna carta all the way to greece...and American ideals today are essentially the same as French, British, and a whole host of others...I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but I am most familiar with, and most energized by, the words and ideals that I as an American are most familiar with. Hope I didn't insult anyone by implying American ideals are the only ones worth beleiving in, for I certainly don't hold that opinion myself.

Atrocities said:

Ya, but they negelect to tell you that as part of the once in a life time get away, you get away for good as your head is seperated from your body.

[TerranC]

Atrocities said:
Ya, but they negelect to tell you that as part of the once in a life time get away, you get away for good as your head is seperated from your body.

That was just bad. I'm just going to pretend that you weren't yourself when you typed this.

And regards to Lost, Lost is crap. It killed what little interest I had in it the moment I saw that episode with the korean couple.

[AMF]

TerranC said:
And regards to Lost, Lost is crap. It killed what little interest I had in it the moment I saw that episode with the korean couple.

Which one? Why? I think it's certainly an intriguing show, especially since it's clearly not just about the Island, and not just about the present...I also think the metaphysical aspects are fascinating. And it's creepy. My only real bummer is that it's easy to make things seem weird, unexplainable , inextricable, but it's a lot harder to tie it all together in a decent way. I mean, there is so much strange stuff going on that at a certain point I just get to wondering whether the only way to explain it all is by invoking God, lots of dream sequences, or some other deux ex machina. Which is fine, but it does seem sort of a cop out. Like when St. Elsewhere ended (I think it was that one) where the entire series over the years was shown to be the hallucinations of an autistic kid. That's just bad writing.

If they can wrap it all up in a way that answers questions, that's what I want. The tendency for writers of this sort of show, however, is to leave as many questions unanswered as otherwise - I think becuase, at the end of the day, they've hyped all the mystery so much that they actually can't satisfy all their mysteries.

That's not to say that such a tactic is inherently a bad thing. I greatly appreciate those writers like John Fowles or David Lynch who approach their subject as if the reader/viewer was part of it. Didja ever read the French Lieutenants' Woman? It's a great book, very very well written, and pulls you into the role of the protagonist very well. And then, near the end of the book, when the protagonist becomes very confused and disoriented by new sudden information, the author imparts the same feelings in the reader by messing with the writing and, of all things, the pagination. It's a cute little trick, but just as the protagonist is feeling like everything he's assumed up to that point is up to question, the reader also feels like the ground has been pulled out from under them, becuase suddenly they're reading the same, but slightly different, passages twice, and the page numbers are slighlty screwy, etc...it's good work, and for years I didn't really get what was going on.

Or, howabout Lost Highway by David Lynch. One cogent interpretation of that movie is that it's all pretty much a hallucination in this guys head - but the point is not that as much as the fact that, as a viewer, you are as confused and off-gaurd as the protagonist...

Essentially, they're pulling the reader/viewer directly into the piece, and, if done well, is pretty fascinating, and stays with you.

I just hope they don't do that with lost, becuase of the fact that it's almost impossible for the viewer to relate to the subject matter - hence it would be another 'Matrix' or 'Donnie Darko' where it's a great yarn, and fascinates, but has ultimately less staying power or value as literature.

Geez, I really am rambling today.

I really must stop drinking so much coffee in the morning.

Thanks,

Alarik

[TerranC]

alarikf said:Which one? Why?

Episode 6.

Edit: as to why, I think this sums it up: the episode's title is "House of the Rising Sun" and it's supposed to be about a Korean woman who's surname is sun. That's not witty. That's just downright stupid.

[Randallw]

If you mean the one which concentrated on the husband, I thought it was good. We see things from the husbands perspective and learn that his wife is wrong about him, and that what he does is to protect her.

[Ragnarok]

TerranC said:

Episode 6.

Edit: as to why, I think this sums it up: the episode's title is "House of the Rising Sun" and it's supposed to be about a Korean woman who's surname is sun. That's not witty. That's just downright stupid.

So you judge the show on an episode title?
What about the actual show did you not like?

[TerranC]

Ragnarok said:
So you judge the show on an episode title?
What about the actual show did you not like?

Randallw said:
If you mean the one which concentrated on the husband, I thought it was good. We see things from the husbands perspective and learn that his wife is wrong about him, and that what he does is to protect her.

... No, that is not the episode I am talking about. And no, I am not judging the show on an episode title - I had believed that that would be enough to show my beef with the show, but apparently it doesn't seem to have registered.

To clarify, my biggest beef with the show is that the creators seem to have chosen that korean couple to be the token minority figure. From what I have seen of their portrayals, they are too damn stereotypical, and even then the creators used the wrong stereotypes, seeming to liken their nation of origin with a particular nation neighbouring it.

The show, in it's other aspects is fine. It's got hobbits and aliens and adam and eve and everything. It's just that for a show to be entertaining to me, it has to get whatever it is portraying reasonably right or seemingly justified; Lost doesn't do that, at least not with the "korean" characters.

Edit: That's it. I've given this piece of turd that is hollywood enough attention. If you still don't know what I mean, PM me.

[Slynky]

I watch Lost. I look forward to new episodes as much as I looked forward to Firefly episodes. Which, is (was) a lot!

I think the writers have done a great job fleshing out the characters so we can get a good glimpse of thier character and what drives (drove) them. Story line? Not sure where it's going but have heard (read) some say they all died and are between earth and their final destination (be it heaven or hell). That this is just a sort of limbo. (shrug...who knows...maybe the writers don't know yet, LOL)

As to "minority tokens", they are what I refer to as complying with the success formula. The reason why Bruce Willis gets paired with Samuel L. Jackson...to pull in a diversified audience. To generalize, it pre-supposes that whites won't go see a "black" movie and blacks won't go see a "white" movie, so they mix and match to get everyone to come. (grin).

So, in Lost, we have more than the Korean couple filling that niche (so to speak). We even have "overweight" representation (LOL).

And, I just love the way Kate looks! (sorry)

[Hugh Manatee]

TerranC said:

... No, that is not the episode I am talking about. And no, I am not judging the show on an episode title - I had believed that that would be enough to show my beef with the show, but apparently it doesn't seem to have registered.

To clarify, my biggest beef with the show is that the creators seem to have chosen that korean couple to be the token minority figure. From what I have seen of their portrayals, they are too damn stereotypical, and even then the creators used the wrong stereotypes, seeming to liken their nation of origin with a particular nation neighbouring it.

The show, in it's other aspects is fine. It's got hobbits and aliens and adam and eve and everything. It's just that for a show to be entertaining to me, it has to get whatever it is portraying reasonably right or seemingly justified; Lost doesn't do that, at least not with the "korean" characters.

Edit: That's it. I've given this piece of turd that is hollywood enough attention. If you still don't know what I mean, PM me.

I thought the Middle Eastern dude was the token minority..... or the black guy with the estranged kid.... or the fat guy.... or the guy in the wheel chair..... lol.

Seriously, IIRC TerranC IS of korean descent, sorry if thats supposed to be a secret or something but I can see where you're coming from . If there was a cuban guy on that show, and he was a jazz musician who made bongos out of boar skins and a log or a was a baseball player, yeah i'd be kinda pissed too.

IMO middle eastern people got shafted a bit more then the asian in terms of portraial. You have 1 middle eastern guy on the flight, he just happens to be an ex-secret police officer trained in intell gathering, espianoge and torture, each of which he gets to employ on the show. His reason for being on the flight is he had to bury his friend who was a suicide bomber..... yeah unwitting mafia wife who knows acupunture and stooge yakuza husband who speaks half *** korean dilalects ain't so bad now eh ?

Meh, I don't really sweat stuff like that, look at enterprise and the anti-vulcans, you expect to much from writers(BTW I hear "Knocker Spocker" from enterprise has a role in the new season, and what's her name that voiced Leela on futurama, from married with children....). Aside from occasionally dumb characters the show is pretty fun, got a good cliffhanger vibe from episode to episode, like an old radio show(complete with racial stereotypes...). My only problem is that I know this can't end well, same gut feeling i get from battle star galactica, you know it's going to turn into Lost 1984 where the descendants of the stradees try to survive, then integrate into society while running from polar bears.....